Monday, October 30, 2006

The Restroom Question

The State of Maryland says that schools should teach about "sexual variation," but there isn't much indication of what that would really mean. Variation? Montgomery County has decided, more or less arbitrarily, it seems to me, to define variation as orientation. Thus the classes that are being developed will focus on heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality, subjects that are defined by who you are attracted to.

But there is another question altogether, which would be, not who you're attracted to, but who do you feel like? Not everyone feels like what they look like, some people really feel that they are the opposite gender from their bodies. This feeling is not very common, but it's not as rare as you think, either.

In some cases, the physical sex of the individual is ambiguous; some people are born with both male and female anatomical features. Parents usually have to decide which way to raise their child, since it seems everything in our society is split between the sexes, including, most problematically, our language, which requires that any pronoun referring to a single person must identify their gender. In this ambiguous physical condition, called intersex, parents might decide one way at birth, and as the child grows up it turns out they guessed wrong, and the child subjectively turns out the opposite gender from what was assigned. But not all cases are anatomically ambiguous. Sometimes, it seems, the brain and the rest of the body are just tuned to different frequencies; the person's experience is pervasively, unwaveringly consistent over time, and inconsistent with the kind of body they have.

I suppose a person who feels they have been assigned to the wrong gender category can just do what people expect them to do, and play the role that has been given them, even if that means that their own experience is always discontinuous with how people perceive them. I don't know, but I have the feeling almost everyone in this situation tries that, at least for a while. I would guess that a lot of people never do make the transition, living secret lives that no one ever guesses.

Others take the plunge. It's interesting, a lot of times these are people who are older, who are just tired of living a fake life, and they go ahead and make the transition. Change their name, take hormones, have surgery, take on a new identity.

In New York, a transgender woman was recently arrested for using the ladies' room in the subway station, leading to an interesting new development. Just a tiny step forward, I think. Here's the New York Daily News:
The line for the girls' room just got longer.

Men who live as women can now legally use women's rest rooms in New York's transit system under an unprecedented deal revealed yesterday.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority agreed to allow riders to use MTA rest rooms "consistent with their gender expression," the Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund announced yesterday.

The group filed a complaint against the MTA on behalf of a 70-year-old telephone repair technician who was arrested for using the women's room at Grand Central Terminal.

The technician, who is assigned to the terminal by Verizon, was born Henry McGuinness but now goes by Helena Stone.

"I'm a 24-hour woman," Stone declared proudly. "I just feel like a woman and I like to wear women's clothes." Girls' room his, too: Transgender men free to use ALL of MTA's loos

OK, there's got to be a rule here, clearly, about who uses what bathroom. I mean, this is really one of our society's biggest problems, right? So, what do you think the rule should be? You use the bathroom you were born into? You use the bathroom you look like? You use the bathroom consistent with your anatomy? Consistent with your clothes?

The problem of course is that we feel a need to stuff everybody into one of two boxes, and not everybody fits there. We have norms and taboos in our way of life that require a gender dichotomy, and that is just not the case a hundred percent of the time.

So you need a rule. And I think they settled on the right rule: use the bathroom that is consistent with your gender expression.
Michael Sullivan, Stone's lawyer, called the settlement of the complaint with the Human Rights Commission a "milestone" toward recognition of the city law that prohibits discrimination against transgender men and women.

But some Metro-North riders at Grand Central yesterday were stunned by the ruling.

"I would not like that," said Gloria David, a retiree from Connecticut. "I have nothing against gay men or drag queens, but they can use the men's room. I just don't want to go to the bathroom next to a man."

One rider feared predators might dress as women and lurk in the women's room.

I'd have to say that someone who turned himself into a woman so he could hide in the stall and listen to women pee probably has, y'know, other problems.

I understand that Ms. David would be uncomfortable, but women-who-used-to-be-men have bladders, too, they also get uncomfortable. I think this is just the correct way to decide this. Besides, I doubt that this will really have a big impact on Ms. David's life, somehow.
But Rena Gantz, 23, a college student, shrugged off the settlement.

"It doesn't bother me because it is a reality," she said. "If they believe they are women, they should be treated as one."

That seems easy, doesn't it? It's a reality.

19 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the rule is to use the restroom which fits your gender expression, it's then only logical to assume that separate restrooms were designed NOT because of anatomical differences.

Tackle the real reason as to why we have separate bathrooms in the first place.

October 30, 2006 10:16 PM  
Blogger JimK said...

OK, Anon, I'll bite, what do you think the real reason is? Seems to me it is a matter of modesty. I don't see how that leads us toward any different solution.

JimK

October 31, 2006 7:11 AM  
Blogger digger said...

A possible solution is gender-neutral restrooms. Certainly when the restrooms are -one-person rooms, designating one as men's and one as women's is silly. I remember stopping at a gas-station in Ashland 4th of July weekend; there was a long line of women, and I just walked past them since I was the only man there. I suggested they use both rooms, and they did, forming two lines that everyone had to wait in.

Cafe Asia in downtown DC has multi-person gender neutral restrooms (the Cafe Asia in Arlington, however, has separate-gender restrooms). In the restroom, there is a long hall with sinks that each person of either gender uses. There are no urinals, but each person goes into a stall with a full door. It's a little different, having grown up with gender-separate restrooms, but it's OK.

I heard some students speak of gender-neutral restrooms at their HS in California. The school has some gender-neutral restrooms and some same-gender restrooms. There were initial concerns that boys would harass girls in these gender-neutral rooms, but apparently that didn't happen. Students who feel comfortable using them use them.

Gender-neutral restrooms require a little more investment in physical plant, but in the interest of all people being treated fairly, it seems like a good idea to me.

Robert

October 31, 2006 10:57 AM  
Blogger digger said...

Dear friends,

We in Virginia are planning an all-day conference for LGBT and allied youth still in high school, to be held in Annandale (at the beltway, near I-95 and Springfield)on March 3, 2007. Meals will be provided, we expect the cost to be minimal (or free).We would like very much to invite Montgomery youth and adults who work with youth to the conference (when we had a similar conference at GWU in 2000, about 30 youth from Montgomery attended). Any input on how to reach out to youth in public and private schools in Maryland would be welcome. If people are interested, I can place you on the listserv for the electronic planning committee, or you can even attend planning meetings in Falls Church.

Thanks for your help.

Robert Rigby, Jr.
202-253-2441
rrigbyjr@yahoo.com

BTW, the sponsoring organizations at this point are GLSEN (Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network) Northern Virginia, NOVAM (Northern Virginia AIDS Minsitry) and Youth Pride Alliance

October 31, 2006 11:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Restrooms should be seperated by gender- which, by the way, doesn't vary with feelings.

Allowing someone to go to bathroom based on how they feel (or say they feel) could result in authorities being unable to keep stalkers out of rest rooms.

The whole thing is yet another lunacy showing where the gay normalization agenda is heading.

October 31, 2006 2:04 PM  
Blogger Dana Beyer, M.D. said...

Luna-Anon,

No one said that the standard should be on how you "feel." It should be on how you present yourself. Personally I don't care how you feel; I only care how you act in public and treat the rest of your fellow citizens.

It actually works out, in practice, exceedingly well.

October 31, 2006 3:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Montgomery County has decided, more or less arbitrarily, it seems to me, to define variation as orientation."

Not arbitrary. Just what they thought they could get away with.

October 31, 2006 7:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"No one said that the standard should be on how you "feel." It should be on how you present yourself."

Presentation is a choice. Guys belong in the guys' room not dressing up and hanging out in the girls' room. Can you imagine the problems this would cause?

Nice to hear from you, btw, Dr D.

October 31, 2006 8:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It actually works out, in practice, exceedingly well."

In Dupont Circle perhaps. The rest of us don't see that as a model for our communities.

October 31, 2006 8:02 PM  
Blogger Mark Angelo Cummings said...

Anonymous said...
Restrooms should be seperated by gender- which, by the way, doesn't vary with feelings.

Allowing someone to go to bathroom based on how they feel (or say they feel) could result in authorities being unable to keep stalkers out of rest rooms.

The whole thing is yet another lunacy showing where the gay normalization agenda is heading.

Anonymus,

First of all its not about how you feel, feeling have nothing to do with transsexualism, but all to do with identification which lies in your brain. At 8 weeks in your mothers womb, your brain develops into a male or female brain, depending on the hormonal bathing it recieves. If all goes well your brain and genital match. Yet 65,000 children a year are born with unmatching or ambigious genitals. 1 out of 100 babies are born with some form of gender and sex identity anamolie. This is hard facts and science. So who should use what bathroom? According to the guide lines of the Harrry Benjamin Critria, a person with Gender dypshoria shall live their life as the Sex they are transitioning to for at least a year prior to surgery. This includes using the restroom. A trannsexual women is a woman, even though her outer appearance does not fully reflect it yet. Gender and Sex have two distinct meaning. Gender refers to your identity as male or female. Sex refers to the physical components to include: gonads, reproductive organs, and genitals. If all goes well the two shall match, if not, you get a person who is a transsexual and are transitioninig or changing their sex to match their gender. So let people be, and stop judging something you know absolutely nothing about. Oh by the way transsexualism has nothing to do with homosexuality. Your gender Identity and sexual preference are different. Who you identify as and who you want to go to bed with are like night and day. As far as I know homosexuals do not want to change their penises for a vagina. They just want to have a penis in certain places. Education what a wonderful tool. We are passed the dark ages, so I thought.

MAC

October 31, 2006 8:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, man, that whole different bathroom hang-up is so Dark Ages!

Thanks for that riveting scientific analysis. Looks like we're going to need a constitutional amendment to keep guys out of the girls' room.

October 31, 2006 9:23 PM  
Blogger Dana Beyer, M.D. said...

Looks like it, Anon. If you try it, you may not like the results.

Oh, when you find some examples of men dressing as women to "hang out in the women's bathroom" please let me know.

It works everywhere in addition to Dupont Circle. My God, it's happening all over your hometown, and you don't even know it. There are even transmen in the men's room, and you're oblivious. Which, of course, is the point.

Mark, sharing "riveting" scientific facts with these guys is a complete waste of time. They are simply not interested, happy to wallow in their faith-based soup of ignorance.

October 31, 2006 9:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"At 8 weeks in your mothers womb, your brain develops into a male or female brain, depending on the hormonal bathing it recieves. If all goes well your brain and genital match."

Hey, MAC. Let me ask you a question:

You sound pretty certain about this riveting stuff. If there were a test to determine if the brain and the genitals match, and some stuffy parent found they didn't match and they decided to abort the child, what would your position be on that? How about in the even more unlikely scenario where it turned out homosexuality were a biological condition that could be tested for? Would you be pro-life or pro-choice in these scenarios?

October 31, 2006 11:25 PM  
Blogger andrear said...

I hate waiting in line to use the bathroom- virtually no men going in the men's bathroom and a long line of women. However, some women are so conditioned that they will not even go into a single person bathroom if it is marked men and no one is in there. I know because I have been in a line for the women's bathroom and used the empty- with a door lock- men's room but coming out, find women who will not go in. Logan Tavern at 14th and P just has two single person bathrooms- the same- smart idea!. I suppose some women are freaked uot because even single use men's bathrooms have urinals(OH,NOOOO!)

November 01, 2006 9:37 AM  
Blogger Mark Angelo Cummings said...

Hey, MAC. Let me ask you a question:

You sound pretty certain about this riveting stuff. If there were a test to determine if the brain and the genitals match, and some stuffy parent found they didn't match and they decided to abort the child, what would your position be on that? How about in the even more unlikely scenario where it turned out homosexuality were a biological condition that could be tested for? Would you be pro-life or pro-choice in these scenarios?

First, of all I am for the persons choice, no one especially the government should be involved in that, except for the mother and father of the unborn child. There are many children that should not be brought into this world, especially with morans for parents. As far as knowing if your child would be transsexual or homosexual, that should not be a reason for abortion. Transsexuals along with homosexuals are very loving,talented and unique individuals. They are a product of nature and deserve to live just like everyone else. Its the rest of the world I am worrie about. Judgemental fools that are stuck in a one track mentality and can get beyond it. Arragance creates narrow mindness, to think that there is only one way in life, and that there are only two genders is just plain wrong. So to answer your question, we all have the right to live, and Hitler has been dead for quite a while.

MAC

November 01, 2006 2:05 PM  
Blogger Dana Beyer, M.D. said...

Correction: The brain starts developing at 10-12 weeks, not eight weeks. That's why DES creates individuals with male genitals and female brains. Pretty simple, actually.

As for abortion, I agree with Mark -- that's up to the woman. I think sex and gender and eye color are pretty simplistic reasons for abortion, but other than educating people about these issues I accept that it is none of my business. It's something like free speech -- it's easy to be for it when you agree; it only gets problematic when you disagree with the content.

Also keep in mind that something like 40% of all embryos are spontaneously aborted, and we rarely have a clue as to why.

November 01, 2006 2:31 PM  
Blogger Mark Angelo Cummings said...

http://www.gires.org.uk/Web_Page_Assets/Gender_Dysphoria.htm


Until 8 weeks gestation the embryo is non gender specific. At this time the absense or presence of adrogen determines the fate of the fetus, and if all receptors communicate accordingly read above link, its pretty interesting.

MAC

November 01, 2006 3:30 PM  
Anonymous Tish said...

That whole article was grossly disrespectful. Transwomen aren't gay men, nor are they men in drag. As a transwoman, Helena Stone isn't a "he."

As for bathroom use - have any of you straight women ever shared a restroom with a transwomen? Would you even know if you had? I'll let you in on a secret: I have used public restrooms with transwomen and it's ... unremarkable. Ladies go in, they close the door, they take care of business, they wash up, and it's all over. Just like the rest of us girls.

Now, what if a person came into the women's room and you weren't sure if that person were a man or a women? What if that person had short hair and was wearing pants and had a pretty muscular body without a prominant bustline, or had a square jaw, or wasn't wearing make-up? You know that there are women like that, right? So would you just go about your business, or would you try to have that person arrested? Would that be OK? What if you were wrong? Would it still be OK?

In 2003, the management of a TGI Friday's in Laurel had a member of the DC Divas football team arrested for using the women's room. The arresting officers refused to look at the ID she was carryng (and offered). Should female football players be required to use men's rooms?

I think that when folks who don't appear to be gender-conforming use public restrooms, the danger is to them, not to the other women in the room.

November 01, 2006 9:19 PM  
Blogger Mark Angelo Cummings said...

Tish,

You are correct. The problem in our society is that ignorance run rapid. It is easier for people to make fun of someone, than to get to know them or learn about them. The transgender umbrella is a rather large one. But so is the gender/sex spectrum. Where you are in that spectrum would depend how far from the typical development the person is. In that umbrella there are: transvestites, cross dressers, transsexuals, feminine men, masculine women, et. Sexual preference having nothing to do with all of the above. That is a different ball game all together. So bottom line, humanbeings come in all shapes and colors. The beauty is, we are all different. As such, we need to respect each others differences and celebrate diversity. It would be one hell of a boring world if we were all the same. The simpletons are no way exciting, but hey we need them too.

I can't believe people are so childish and worry so much about bathrooms. After all there is a door for privacy, and wheather you stand, squat or sit, no one will know, because its all done behind that door. So folks, there is no need to panic, transsexuals are harmless, they go to the bathroom to pee and puu like everyone else.....

November 02, 2006 10:44 AM  

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