Yglesias on Pedophilia
I was going to try to write something about this, but I kept getting it tangled up, and besides, I just noticed that Matthew Yglesias said it perfectly well. Here's his post in its entirety (including the picture):
Not to get too thick in the weeds of apologetics here, but it's certainly true that use of the term "pedophilia" in the context of the Mark Foley scandal should be resisted. What Foley was up to was sleazy and wrong (and, it seems, possibly illegal) but being attracted to older teens isn't pedophilia. I think the gay angle clouds people's thinking about this.
You'll see on the right a photo of Scarlett Johannssonn in Ghost World. She was born on November 22, 1984 and the film was released in 2001, so it would have been shot was she was sixteen years old. I think it's rather self-evident that to classify anyone who thinks this is a picture of an attractive woman as a pedophile would be to drain the term of any real meaning. One could fairly subject a much older man actively persuing a sexual relationship with a sixteen year-old to all sorts of criticism, but pedophilia isn't a plausible candidate.
UPDATE: Just to be clear, it's possible for something both to be wrong and to not be pedophilia. Lots of things that aren't pedophilia are wrong. I'm trying to defend the English language here, not Foley's conduct. "Pedophilia"
posted by JimK at 2:43 PM
14 Comments:
Who cares what you call it? He used the power and influence given him by his constituents to try to encourage gay feelings and behavior from young kids at a time when they are still forming their adult identity. The gay angle makes it many times worse than it would be otherwise because the potential damage is greater.
well, if a much older guy came after my kids when they were 16-I'd still call the cops. Lucky for me, my kids didn't look like Scarlett Johannson.
Anon-the "gay angle" doesn't make it much worse- only in your sick head.
Andrea, you have to admit that if he influenced them somehow to become gay, they'd be embarking on a dangerous and difficult life.
Influenced the kid to become gay? Are you using "gay" as some behavioural description? Dangerous? That depends on the kids own choices regardless of his sexuality. Difficult? What would make it difficult? That's right, people who share your ideology when it comes to homosexuality.
"Influenced the kid to become gay? Are you using "gay" as some behavioural description?"
The whole experience could affect the victim's feelings and also behavior. Suffice to say it could mess the kid up.
"Dangerous? That depends on the kids own choices regardless of his sexuality."
Not really. Anyone who seeks out gay relationships is at risk. a high percentage of the pool of potential partners is highly likely to have been highly promiscous.
"Difficult? What would make it difficult? That's right, people who share your ideology when it comes to homosexuality."
Or the fact that they're in conflict with their true nature. There's an emotional toll connected with that.
Or the fact that they're in conflict with their true nature. There's an emotional toll connected with that.
Are we talking the hocus pocus "exgay" factor? Well we all know that reparative therapy is harmful and then throw in there quacks like Richard Cohen, nuts like Dobson...well emotional toll would not touch it
Just what is your definition of "true nature?" Straight..?????
Ted
"Just what is your definition of "true nature?" Straight..?????"
Yes, sir. It the nature in harmony with the way the human body is designed to function.
Homosexuality is unnatural, requiring props and pills to be accomplished.
Yes, Ted, hetrosexuality is the true nature of human sapiens. It can be corrupted but that would be a corrupted nature.
"Are we talking the hocus pocus "exgay" factor?"
It's real. This attraction can be resisted.
"Well we all know that reparative therapy is harmful"
Well, it may depend what kind of therapy. There are few cures that don't have side effects. That doesn't invalidate them. You wouldn't forsake chemo if you had lung cancer, despite the harmful effects. In reparative sexual attraction therapy, the effects are limited to emotional discomfort but can be handled by the right therapist.
NAMbLA kind of says it all. Anyone think that the Dems care if he had sex with Kids ask Ruth Bader Ginsburg what here thoughts were. Sex Bias in the U.S. Code
Anonymous said:
"The whole experience could affect the victim's feelings and also behavior. Suffice to say it could mess the kid up."
Yes that particular experience could, but the kid was gay already. There was no influence into becoming gay.
Anonymous said:
"Not really. Anyone who seeks out gay relationships is at risk. a high percentage of the pool of potential partners is highly likely to have been highly promiscous."
High percentage, highly likely, highly promiscuous. *sigh* Based on what? A stereotype that you apply to an entire group of people? You really make far too many assumptions about real people. While he's more likely to meet a promiscuous person within the gay male population, that fact alone does not make it "dangerous" in itself. If the kid CHOOSES to have sex with an infected male, then it's dangerous. It's all down to his choice whether he wants to live dangerously or not.
Anonymous said:
"Or the fact that they're in conflict with their true nature. There's an emotional toll connected with that."
Let's assume your "corrupted nature" theory is true. If the kid has corrupted nature, that nature is still natural to him. Outside influence always condemning him as "corrupted" is what will make it difficult for him. A lot of psychological damage can happen, and a lot of it subconciously. Even such trivial comments like yours can really encourage difficulty for and harm a child who is gay.
I simply see your hypocrisy, although you seemingly genuinely believe you're correct with all your theory of corrupted nature and reparative theory.
"Yes that particular experience could, but the kid was gay already. There was no influence into becoming gay."
Sick, sick, sick.
Of COURSE that exchange is going to have a negative affect on the kid. Did you not read it ?
You have an adult in a position of authority forcing himself and his attentions on a kid that obviously didn't want them. But might not have said no... because the adult was in a position of authority.
And my daughter does look like Scarlett Johannson... somewhat, but she is still a kid ! She is not mature, she is irresponsible, and she is a kid... it doesn't matter what she looks like on the outside.
So I would appreciate if we could restrain the looks from the adults, the whistles and the nasty remarks from the blue-collar workers, and not just accept that because she is pretty she should just "have to put up with" untoward advances, comments or stares.
As her Mom, I don't appreciate it.
I'm the parent of a couple of beautiful young ladies. Realistically I know I will never change the nature of man which is to spread his seed far and wide. I have choices to make about how to protect my daughters from unsolicited admiration.
Some parents choose to lock their daughters away from the world. We have all become aware of cultures that use the burqua to accomplish this isolation. This option just doesn't seem right to me. Instead I choose to teach my daughters about the world as it is, how to sucessfully navigate it, and how to try to make it a better place for all of us.
Theresa said:
"Sick, sick, sick.
Of COURSE that exchange is going to have a negative affect on the kid. Did you not read it ?"
I'm not one to be certain about an individual I know nothing about. I don't make such assumptions, so in this situation I rely on likelihood.
Ultimate Coverup
Full-Body Swimsuit Leaves Everything To the Imagination
By Robin Givhan
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, July 14, 2006; Page C01
The makers of WholesomeWear swimsuits would like women to cover up their tummies. And their backs. And their arms. And half their legs. The Oregon company, based outside Portland, sells a collection of swimwear online that consists of a wet suit topped by a dress. The spandex underpinning is not sufficient on its own because bystanders would still be able to make out the curves of the woman's body. The nylon overdress takes care of any audacious display of an hourglass shape.
The collection is not aimed at practitioners of any specific religion. There is no obvious mention of spirituality, God, Allah or Joseph Smith on the company's Web site.
"There are still people in this world who prefer modesty," says Joan Ferguson, who handles sales for the company. "So my son, his wife and daughter designed the product...."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/13/AR2006071301845.html
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