Forum This Sunday on Religion and Education
I don't think anyone can really deny that religion is at the bottom of our sex-ed controversy here in Montgomery County. People have different views about what is acceptable and right, and those views often originate in, or at least are supported by, their religious institutions. Though most of us grew up thinking that the US government was a secular institution that protected religion without promoting it, we have, these days, some people who actually argue that there should not be any separation of church and state, that the Founding Fathers never intended to separate them, that America should be a Christian nation. Including the public schools.
In that context, it is not surprising if a lot of the high-profile controversies of our time -- the Ten Commandments in the courthouse, prayer in the public schools -- center around religious matters. And it is not surprising if a lot of our other controversies -- evolution, sex education, gay marriage -- are indirectly related to religion, that is, religious attitudes influence people's opinions on those subjects.
TeachTheFacts.org and the Interfaith Fairness Coalition of Maryland have organized a forum to be held this Sunday afternoon, to discuss the complicated relationship between public education and religion.
The program, titled "Just Say Welcome:Mainstream Religious Perspectives on Sex and Gender in Education," will feature Robert Boston of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and Abby Crowley, Ed.D., from the Prince George's County Board of Education, discussing how public schools may or may not accommodate religious speech and practice from students and staff.
Speakers, including:
will share their congregations' journeys through faith to inclusion, in individual presentations and a panel discussion.
Special guests Positive Voices will give a vocal performance of songs that highlight issues surrounding sexuality and education.
Because a vocal minority of social conservatives has dominated the discourse about religious views of sexual orientation and gender identity for too long, we want to give voice to some of the many clergy and congregations whose faith brings them to inclusion rather than exclusion.
The forum will be held Sunday, November 12th, from 2 to 4:30 PM, in the Blair High School Cafeteria Stage, 51 University Boulevard, Silver Spring. You should park in the lot that faces University Blvd.
In that context, it is not surprising if a lot of the high-profile controversies of our time -- the Ten Commandments in the courthouse, prayer in the public schools -- center around religious matters. And it is not surprising if a lot of our other controversies -- evolution, sex education, gay marriage -- are indirectly related to religion, that is, religious attitudes influence people's opinions on those subjects.
TeachTheFacts.org and the Interfaith Fairness Coalition of Maryland have organized a forum to be held this Sunday afternoon, to discuss the complicated relationship between public education and religion.
The program, titled "Just Say Welcome:Mainstream Religious Perspectives on Sex and Gender in Education," will feature Robert Boston of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and Abby Crowley, Ed.D., from the Prince George's County Board of Education, discussing how public schools may or may not accommodate religious speech and practice from students and staff.
Speakers, including:
- Reverend Charles Butler, Ecumenicon Fellowship and IFCMD.org
- Reverend James Todhunter, Christ Congregational Church
- Reverend Patricia Barth, Takoma Park Presbyterian Church
- Reverend Scott Winnette, Bradley Hill Presbyterian Church, and
- Reverend Stephanie Nagley, St. Luke's Episcopal Church
will share their congregations' journeys through faith to inclusion, in individual presentations and a panel discussion.
Special guests Positive Voices will give a vocal performance of songs that highlight issues surrounding sexuality and education.
Because a vocal minority of social conservatives has dominated the discourse about religious views of sexual orientation and gender identity for too long, we want to give voice to some of the many clergy and congregations whose faith brings them to inclusion rather than exclusion.
The forum will be held Sunday, November 12th, from 2 to 4:30 PM, in the Blair High School Cafeteria Stage, 51 University Boulevard, Silver Spring. You should park in the lot that faces University Blvd.
posted by JimK at 10:23 AM
32 Comments:
Good. The religious right has been pimping Jesus long enough. He's tired of it.
Off topic. More and more, we keep finding out that those who spend the most time and energy badmouthing gay people, are themselves gay.
We now know that one of the prime architects of this 'gay agenda' nonsense, Pastor Ted Haggard, is gay. And according to Bill Maher, the head of the Republican National Committee, Ken Mehlman is as also gay.
Are there any hetero right-wingers?
I'm just saying.
"I don't think anyone can really deny that religion is at the bottom of our sex-ed controversy here in Montgomery County."
Well, I, for one deny it. The controversy is about community standards which are common throughout many systems of religious belief.
"The religious right has been pimping Jesus long enough. He's tired of it."
If you believe someone has misquoted or misinterpreted the words of Jesus, simply correct them. The way you take such umbrage at the very mention of his name... it kind of proves your opponents' point.
Jesus would be shocked and dismayed to see how modern-day American "Christians" have perverted his teachings.
Merle
The religious right uses Jesus as a cover for their paranoia, and for many of them, their unexpressed desires.
Yeah, I know. Pimpin' ain't easy.
For any of you who don't believe in evolution...here's proof.
Anonymous writes,
Off topic. More and more, we keep finding out that those who spend the most time and energy badmouthing gay people, are themselves gay.
Come now, don't be shy...name names.
We now know that one of the prime architects of this 'gay agenda' nonsense, Pastor Ted Haggard, is gay.
Come on...out with it!
And according to Bill Maher, the head of the Republican National Committee, Ken Mehlman is as also gay.
Now, that is fascinating news...really now, just fascinating. Just one problem...it ignores the fact that while Mehlman may indeed be gay, maybe that is because he actually (gasp!) agrees with most of what the Republican Party represents. Furthermore, he probably understands that if the GOP were to abandon us social conservatives it would doom them to a minority status for a long time (and make no mistake, I will only vote Republican as long as they support a conservative social agenda).
So, I don't care who Ken Mehlman does "it" with...he could be a flaming fairy queen at home or hanging out at Dupont Circle for that matter. Simply put, what he does in his private life is his business (though, isn't it odd that those that scream most loudly about "privacy" seem to be the first to violate it if it serves their political agenda? odd indeed...)
And while we are at it, with Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert on the tube now, I think Bill Maher (by comparison) is a dull has been...besides being a jackass. But, hey he can still get in on Larry "King of the Softball" Live; thanks, but I would prefer someone that would challenge me like Tim Russert on Meet the Press.
Are there any hetero right-wingers?
Uh...do I count?
I'm just saying.
I know, I know...it is just that emotional projectionism running into overdrive...
"Jesus would be shocked and dismayed to see how modern-day American "Christians" have perverted his teachings."
Instead of just repeating this mantra over and over, by all means, let's have some elaboration. Which teachings were perverted?
"The religious right uses Jesus as a cover for their paranoia, and for many of them, their unexpressed desires."
Wow! Really? Can you tell us more? How do they do that?
Well now, if it's all good for Mehlman to be gay...then why doesn't he just come out and admit it (since he won't deny it.) Oh yeah, 'cause your fellow Republicans would give him the boot. Oh yeah, that just happened!
Something about being on a gerbil wheel too long.
TTF is very disturbed that there are gay people who disagree with them.
That's just inconvenient!
Whoa, pardner! If you're responding to the last comment before yours, that would be me, and I am not a TTF'r.
I just like commenting on this blog...'cause you guys are so very amusing.
Which teachings were perverted?
where to start ... rich man/eye of needle ... love thy neighbor ... turn the other cheek ... forgive ... blessed are the meek ...
Look, open up the New Testament to the Gospels -- Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. Read any verse that quotes Jesus.
Most importantly, the religious right has perverted the teaching to Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
For a start.
Merle
"rich man/eye of needle"
OK, Merle, here's the first teaching you mentioned. How has the religious right perverted this teaching?
"rich man/eye of needle"
OK, Merle, here's the first teaching you mentioned. How has the religious right perverted this teaching?
"Off topic. More and more, we keep finding out that those who spend the most time and energy badmouthing gay people, are themselves gay.
Come now, don't be shy...name names."
Here's a couple off the top of my head, most (but not all) of whom formerly badmouthed LGBT people and have now come to realize that they are gay themselves and further, that discrimination against LGBTs is immoral and evil:
Ted Haggard
Mark Foley
John Paulk
Mark Perriello
Michael Johnston
Marc Adams
Joe Riddle
Mel White
Wade Richards
Gary Cooper and Michael Bussee
Roy Cohn
J. Edgar Hoover
Google these names (you'll have to google Gary Cooper with Michael Bussee to not get mostly the actor) so you can read and learn.
TTF is very disturbed that there are gay people who disagree with them.
That's just inconvenient!
There aren't too many LGBTs who disagree with TTF's position on the health education curriculum but there are plenty who disagree with right wingers like CRC so it works both ways. Few (if any) among the radical right are happy with most gays who like Haggard and Foley cannot manage to stay inside stained glass closets forever.
There's an interesting interview with Richard Cizik, Vice President for Governmental Affairs, National Association of Evangelicals, in Salon today that gives his view of the perversion of the religious right due to it's association with the GOP.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/11/10/evangelical_vote/index.html?source=newsletter
Here are some excerpts from it:
Q: What turned some conservative Christians against the party candidates they've historically supported?
A: The Republicans lost a lot of Evangelical votes with the corruption issue, and rightly so. The standard you see for voting is not as simple as [gauging] a politician's stance on same-sex marriage or abortion. Moses gave some good advice: Pick capable leaders who are God-fearing, trustworthy and hate dishonest gain. Oh, really? You mean to say that God cares about greed? Just look at Colossians 3:5. What is greed? The apostle Paul says greed is idolatry.
Q: Supporting the GOP isn't one of the commandments the last time I checked, but it has felt that way in the past few elections.
A: Look, to be biblically consistent you have to be politically inconsistent. Evangelicals have to follow their Lord first, and not simply bend to the whims of a political party for the advantages that come with it. That is not good enough. We are not a cheap date. We have appeared so because of the alignment that many within our movement had had with Republicans.
I'm interested in hearing more from both sides. Is this Sunday's "Forum" some kind of working session where I'll be expected to participate, or is it a series of speeches and discussion only among the listed panel? If so, will they take comments from the audience?
Just as it was set up for our candidate forum back in August, the audience will have the opportunity to ask questions by writing them on 3 x 5 cards and passing them to the moderator.
Christine
To further clarify, each speaker will individually address the audience. Then the speakers will sit on a panel to respond to audience questions posed by the moderator.
Christine
It's nice you're taking comments from the audience, Cilly, but I think the poster was also commenting on the stacked deck. If you truly believed in the force of your perspective, why don't you have some opposing viewpoints? If your arguments were so compelling, wouldn't its truth shine clearly when compared to other views?
Maybe a few historians who could explain the vital role religious groups have always played in the American conversation. How freedom of religion doesn't mean supression of religious ideas from the public square. How what is called seperation of church and state by liberals today is actually a hyper-secularization begun by an activist judge from California in the mid-twentieth Century.
The Democrats have now gotten it. Maybe it's time TTF did too.
I'm not a TTF'r, but that's a damned nice try at manipulating TTF into running a forum in a way that CRC never has and never will.
And also a good try at making it seem like religious folks other than evangelicals have lost their minds along with you.
You guys are so very, very good at manipulating. But that doesn't mean it will work.
Well, it may be a damned nice try but all I was suggesting was having a discussion about both point of views. I actually go to church myself so I'm fully aware how diverse thought is in the evangelical community. It always has been and I've labored to alert these guys to the fact before.
Anyway, the forum sounds like a quite one-sided and dull affair where little no ground will be broken. Some are simply very comfortable with navel gazing.
Hey Anon, I'm sure everybody will wonder why you're not there...
JimK
"will feature Robert Boston of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and Abby Crowley, Ed.D., from the Prince George's County Board of Education, discussing how public schools may or may not accommodate religious speech and practice from students and staff"
AUSCS is an interesting group with a valid point of view. They deal with issue frequently. Their opponents in court are often from Liberty Counsel, a group dedicated to preserving religious freedom. Having speakers from both would have made for a thought-provoking forum.
The PG county rep is a really over-the-top choice. PG county is currently being sued for violating the constitutional religious rights of students. This person needs to take a seminar at Liberty Counsel.
Oh well. Another opportunity for a thought-provoking forum deteriorates into a one-sided joke fest.
Better a jokefest than a hatefest. I don't recall any Anonmices complaining about the one-sided nature of the CRC town hall meeting last year. The TTF forum tomorrow will serve as the counterbalance to that well-balanced and "thought provoking" CRC event where the keynote speaker, Delegate Don Dwyer of Ann Arundel County, Maryland, said:
"I’ve been accused of spreading hate and fear among the churches throughout the State of Maryland. Guilty as charged. I am spreading hate and fear. I am spreading the hate of the homosexual activist and I’m spreading my fear of what’s going to happen to this great state and our great nation if people of this world do not take a stand."
There was so much hatred in Dwyer's speech that even the CRC leadership tried to distance itself from the "inflammatory statements made at the meeting."
Christine
Typical, Christine. Pointing in another direction rather than responding. Still, the fact remains that your seminar falsely pretends to have authoritative guidance on an issue that is very much in contention. I think we all know where the Supreme Court is headed though and- just to give you a hint- they won't be awarding any prizes to PG county.
We all know why opposing views won't be heard. TTF is afraid for certain ideas to be heard alongside theirs.
Have a nice propaganda party!
The trolls around here want "both sides" represented at TTF's forum. The trouble is, you can't polish a turd.
And considering that the "other side" of this argument is based on the absurd belief that gay sex is sinful...it's a big ol' steaming pile.
(And I'm not a TTF'r, so don't blame them for my words.)
"The trolls around here want "both sides" represented at TTF's forum. The trouble is, you can't polish a turd."
The goblins on the TTF website who are so afraid to let both have their say also usually signal that they know their arguments have no merit by commencing with feces-related verbage. Sad.
"And considering that the "other side" of this argument is based on the absurd belief that gay sex is sinful...it's a big ol' steaming pile."
I thought the forum was about constitutional issues related to religious free speech in a public school setting.
Charming feces-related metaphor though. You could probably make some money writing joke books for juvenile delinquents.
"(And I'm not a TTF'r, so don't blame them for my words.)"
Quacking like a duck and posting feces-related comments qualifies for an honorary membership.
Congratulations!
dreary.....
Hey, ho!
How did the "expert" forum go?
Sonuds like an enthralling topic. Must have packed 'em in!
Did you have to, like, set up a seperate room with a video feed to accomodate the crowds?
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