Evangelical Sex-Ed Backfires in MoCo
The Rockville Pregnancy Center is just down the street from me, on Twinbrook Parkway. I walk past it every day on my way home from the Metro. They're a storefront business, in a two-story building with an engineering company and a hair salon and some other small businesses. You can go in there and they give you a urine test to see if you're pregnant, and then they "counsel" you. All of it's free.
Like, here's one from their FAQ page
In other words, they only use ultrasound if you're thinking about having an abortion, so you can see how cute the little guy is that you're about to horribly murder. (HERE's how that works.)
It's that kind of place.
It's an affiliate of Care Net, a national network of these places. Here's what their web page says:
I should mention that the executive director of the Rockville Pregnancy Center, Gail Tierney, was one of the participants on the RecallMontgomerySchoolBoard.com message board, back in the day. She wrote complaining about the fact that the schools would teach about condoms. She said 44 percent of their clients became pregnant while their partner was wearing a condom. Which, to me, is the reason they should be taught to use it correctly. But not everybody sees it that way.
Forty-four is such a believable number. Much better than forty-five, which sounds, I don't know, rounded, just a little too easy. And forty-three would've been, y'know, a prime number and all, a weird number. Forty-four is perfect.
Here at TeachTheFacts.org, our one and only topic of interest is the Montgomery County, Maryland, public schools' sex-education curriculum. So ...
As part of our kids' education here in this county, a representative of this evangelistic anti-abortion mission, the Rockville Pregnancy Center, comes into their Health class to talk to them about ... how dirty sex is, I guess.
The result this week, at Albert Einstein High School, was this letter from the principal:
They passed a piece of gum around the whole class, and everybody chewed it for a little bit. I do know that one of the first students to chew the gum is taking antibiotics for an infection. That's only one that I know of -- of course the whole point of this exercise is that you can catch something, right? So if they all catch something, it only proves the point. Brilliant.
I'm sure the nuts will be waving their hands in the air, screaming that the school district is discriminating against these guys because of their religious beliefs or something. But ... why were they there in the first place?
These people will tell you it doesn't matter if kids are exposed to a little ol' germ or two; as long as it prevents even one abortion it's justified, because the ends justify the means. And in response to that I would just add what the principal of Einstein said: "the outside group that made this presentation is no longer approved to send speakers into any classrooms in Montgomery County Public Schools."
Like, here's one from their FAQ page
Q. Do you offer Ultrasound?
A. Yes, when medically indicated for pregnancy viability when considering abortion.
In other words, they only use ultrasound if you're thinking about having an abortion, so you can see how cute the little guy is that you're about to horribly murder. (HERE's how that works.)
It's that kind of place.
It's an affiliate of Care Net, a national network of these places. Here's what their web page says:
Care Net has focused its ministry efforts on developing, equipping, and promoting more than 1,000 evangelical pregnancy centers across North America.
I should mention that the executive director of the Rockville Pregnancy Center, Gail Tierney, was one of the participants on the RecallMontgomerySchoolBoard.com message board, back in the day. She wrote complaining about the fact that the schools would teach about condoms. She said 44 percent of their clients became pregnant while their partner was wearing a condom. Which, to me, is the reason they should be taught to use it correctly. But not everybody sees it that way.
Forty-four is such a believable number. Much better than forty-five, which sounds, I don't know, rounded, just a little too easy. And forty-three would've been, y'know, a prime number and all, a weird number. Forty-four is perfect.
Here at TeachTheFacts.org, our one and only topic of interest is the Montgomery County, Maryland, public schools' sex-education curriculum. So ...
As part of our kids' education here in this county, a representative of this evangelistic anti-abortion mission, the Rockville Pregnancy Center, comes into their Health class to talk to them about ... how dirty sex is, I guess.
The result this week, at Albert Einstein High School, was this letter from the principal:
Dear Parents/Guardians:
I want to inform you of an incident that occurred January 8 in your child's comprehensive health education class. It has been brought to my attention that an outside speaker encouraged students to chew a piece of gum already chewed by other students in the class. I have learned that the intended purpose of this exercise was to demonstrate to students the power of peer pressure and to use it an analogy for transmission of sexually transmitted diseases.
I am appalled and aghast that someone would do this as part of an educational presentation. This exercise was inappropriate and unsanitary and it should not have occurred. I became aware of this exercise just yesterday when I was notified by central office staff.
Montgomery County Public Schools staff has conferred with the office of Dr. Ulder Tillman, Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS), Chief of Public Health and County Health Officer. Her office has advised us that this is an unacceptable and unsanitary practice which carries risks similar to drinking from a common glass, bottle or straw. If you have questions, please contact your private health care provider or DHHS Communicable Disease Services at 240-777-1755.
As a result of this incident, the outside group that made this presentation is no longer approved to send speakers into any classrooms in Montgomery County Public Schools.
I felt it was important to let you know that this incident occurred and I am mailing this letter to ensure that it reaches you. I am intensely dismayed that this happened here at Einstein, and I apologize to you on behalf of our staff. I assure you that your children's safety and health is of the utmost importance to us and I pledge to you that this type of activity will never occur again.
Sincerely,
James Fernandez
Principal
They passed a piece of gum around the whole class, and everybody chewed it for a little bit. I do know that one of the first students to chew the gum is taking antibiotics for an infection. That's only one that I know of -- of course the whole point of this exercise is that you can catch something, right? So if they all catch something, it only proves the point. Brilliant.
I'm sure the nuts will be waving their hands in the air, screaming that the school district is discriminating against these guys because of their religious beliefs or something. But ... why were they there in the first place?
These people will tell you it doesn't matter if kids are exposed to a little ol' germ or two; as long as it prevents even one abortion it's justified, because the ends justify the means. And in response to that I would just add what the principal of Einstein said: "the outside group that made this presentation is no longer approved to send speakers into any classrooms in Montgomery County Public Schools."
posted by JimK at 9:45 AM
57 Comments:
Why were they approved in the first place?
When I went to my daughter's school's health night, they listed off a whole bunch of people that come in. The school district is big on pushing abstinence and making kids aware of STDs, and this is just part of how they do it.
JimK
Jim writes,
They passed a piece of gum around the whole class, and everybody chewed it for a little bit. I do know that one of the first students to chew the gum is taking antibiotics for an infection. That's only one that I know of -- of course the whole point of this exercise is that you can catch something, right?
Uh, yes Jim, that is the idea...
So if they all catch something, it only proves the point. Brilliant.
So, are we going to democratize the risks to communal gum-chewing in the same way as HIV/AIDS activists once pushed the mantra that "ANYONE having sex can get AIDS" (when in fact it was well known that outside of a few high-risks groups, an individual engaging in unprotected sex was as likely to drown in their own bathtub or get any number of other STD's as contract HIV)?
I'm sure the nuts will be waving their hands in the air, screaming that the school district is discriminating against these guys because of their religious beliefs or something.
You know Jim you could learn a thing or two if you would give the anti-religious prejudice schtick a rest...heck, here is a story in the Washington Post by reporter Michelle Boorstein
A Mission of Understanding
At U-Md., Evangelical Christian Teen Breaks Into the Mainstream, Out of His Comfort Zone
URL,
http://www.washingtonpost.com
/wp-dyn/content/article
/2007/01/12/AR2007011202012.html
And this brief quote sums this up well,
Leydorf paused. "I want to look at what people believe and say: Why do they believe this?"
I know, I know Jim...this is a bit out of your "comfort zone"...but hey, give it a try. You remind me a bit of NY Times movie critic Pauline Kael (sp?) who famously stated she could not understand how Nixon could win in 1972 because she did not know ANYONE that voted for Nixon. Well, that is tough to do when your world is Manhattan Island.
But ... why were they there in the first place?
Public schools...open access...you know, small details like that.
These people will tell you it doesn't matter if kids are exposed to a little ol' germ or two; as long as it prevents even one abortion it's justified, because the means justify the ends.
"because the means justify the ends"? LOL!!! The same can and has been said about embryonic stem cell research (a line of research that as yet has produced NO clinical therapies).
Abortion is the least of the worries for these folks to a certain degree; they are concerned that these school children will contract an STD that will affect them for the rest of their lives.
And in response to that I would just add what the principal of Einstein said: "the outside group that made this presentation is no longer approved to send speakers into any classrooms in Montgomery County Public Schools."
Sounds like this Principal had somebody put his feet to the fire...
"In other words, they only use ultrasound if you're thinking about having an abortion, so you can see how cute the little guy is that you're about to horribly murder.
It's that kind of place."
A place that will give pregnant women the facts and not lull them into doing something they will spend the rest of their life regretting.
Teaching the facts isn't bad, is it?
"Here at TeachTheFacts.org, our one and only topic of interest is the Montgomery County, Maryland, public schools' sex-education curriculum. So ...
As part of our kids' education here in this county, a representative of this evangelistic anti-abortion mission, the Rockville Pregnancy Center, comes into their Health class to talk to them about ... how dirty sex is, I guess."
Do you have any proof they were evangelizing them? It sounds like they came in to speak on the importance of teenage abstinence. This is something TTF claims to find important too.
That's really just a PR though, isn't it, TTF?
Anonymous said...
"In other words, they only use ultrasound if you're thinking about having an abortion, so you can see how cute the little guy is that you're about to horribly murder.
It's that kind of place."
A place that will give pregnant women the facts and not lull them into doing something they will spend the rest of their life regretting.
Teaching the facts isn't bad, is it?
Orin here Anonymous,
Jim has the same aversion that a local resident here in the City of Fort Collins has...that is anything that will genuinely protect the youth until such time as they are prepared to make life-changing decisions. In fact this woman has a website, found here,
http://www.lifeandlibertyforwomen.org
and here, she goes after our local angels, that is, our local Crisis Pregnancy Center, The Alpha Center,
http://lifeandlibertyforwomen.org/aacpc.html
"Here at TeachTheFacts.org, our one and only topic of interest is the Montgomery County, Maryland, public schools' sex-education curriculum. So ...
As part of our kids' education here in this county, a representative of this evangelistic anti-abortion mission, the Rockville Pregnancy Center, comes into their Health class to talk to them about ... how dirty sex is, I guess."
Orin here,
This is FALSE Jim and you know it...
Do you have any proof they were evangelizing them? It sounds like they came in to speak on the importance of teenage abstinence. This is something TTF claims to find important too.
Orin again,
Save it Anonymous...it is not facts that TTF is about; it is about IDEOLOGY, and it does not get any more simple than that! From a business POV it is all about "market share" and TTF (and their fellow travelers at Planned Parenthood, SIECUS, Guttmacher Institute, NARAL, et al) are petrified at the thought of losing their market share. That is also what this boils down to...
That's really just a PR though, isn't it, TTF?
Orin again,
Yup, when one reads blog entries like this one, that point comes thru loud and clear.
Jim writes,
the Rockville Pregnancy Center, comes into their Health class to talk to them about ... how dirty sex is, I guess.
And then I wrote,
This is FALSE Jim and you know it...
And now I realize that Jim was very likely speaking in ignorance so he likely does not in fact know how genuine abstinence education works.
I just wanted to clarify my previous entry.
Wow, this really bothers you, doesn't it Orin?
Why do you think they were passing around a piece of gum -- so students could learn how good it tastes?
JimK
Orin,
Do you have any idea about how science works? Do you really think it happens to move from new technique to theoretical understanding to treatment protocol to approved therapy overnight? Especially when the research has been severely limited, in this country at least?
Yes, of course, who knows if a cure for Alzheimer's or Parkinson's will be eventually derived from stem cell research? But we will surely learn a lot, and if history is any guide, there will be many practical benefits from it. Far more than discarding 400,000 frozen blastocysts.
Earlier today, I read the article quoted by Orin. I commend this portion of it:
**********************************
**********************************
By October, some of the Politician was back. Leydorf had applied for a seat in student government, joined the student group InterVarsity Christian Fellowship and was attending any event he could fit into his schedule; one day it was a Muslim student discussion group; the next it was a dialogue between an evangelical student group and a gay student group.
And he was diving into his new challenge: understanding the secular psyche. For example, what exactly was driving the activism he was seeing among irreligious people?
"For me, if I didn't believe in God, it seems that the natural conclusion is to live life as selfishly as possible," he said. "If I wasn't religious, I can certainly see living my life quite differently."
He also felt himself opening up a bit on the subject of homosexuality. He'd gone to the dialogue and also had been assigned a book condemning anti-gay discrimination for a class on civics. Even before coming to Maryland, he'd wrestled with the idea that God sends people to Hell, but now he felt even less comfortable judging who.
"You put more faces to [a subject], and it makes a little bit of difference, and you understand it from their point of view more," he said. "If Jesus was here today, he would hang around with the gay community; these guys are shunned."
Then he paused.
"To me, that's the definition of tolerance -- for us to be able to say to one another's face 'You're wrong,' and be okay with it."
**********************************
Shortly after Christmas, Leydorf and a few other recent Annapolis Area Christian School grads were asked back to talk about college. They were asked: "What was your biggest temptation, and how did you deal with it?" For Leydorf, it turned out not to be such things as drinking and sex but rather a type of religious hubris.
"It's tempting to feel like you're better than other people because you're keeping to the standard better than they are, that you're doing things the right way," he recalled telling the younger students.
But Leydorf found there might be only one thing that truly is absolute: his faith.
"Now I feel that I'm very entrenched in my faith, my view of God. But when it comes to other things, like gay marriage or any number of things, I'm not deeply entrenched in them," he said.
"I feel like I'm different, but I don't feel alienated. And that's not a bad place to be."
*********************************
********************************
Good for young Mr. Leydorf. I wish him well on his journey.
It's funny when these guys like to say I, or we, are opposed to religion, or are opposed to Christians, or something.
I think of the Amish. They have very strict religious beliefs that don't make any sense at all to me. Am I opposed to the Amish? Of course not, I think they're cool with their buggies and their bicycles and stuff. Because, y'know what? No Amish person has ever tried to tell me how to live.
I don't care if there are snake-handlers and polygamists and speakers-in-tongues, and seers-of-visions -- in fact, I think that's all cool stuff. What I don't like is people who make it their business to tell other people how to live.
A girl goes to a clinic for counseling, she deserves to hear the whole story. Sorry, but abortion is legal in this country, and sometimes that's what the mother chooses. It's a hard choice, and you can always make it harder by personalizing the fetus with ultrasound photos and sentimental stories, but that's not "counseling." If you're going to counsel the girl, you should tell her what her options are.
I'm not opposed to religion, just like I'm not opposed to ignorance in general -- some people need it, and it's cool with me.
I am not willing, though, to submit to their incomprehensible rules for living and believing, and I do not appreciate their constant attempts to lower us to their standard.
It's a good day to quote Martin Luther King, who said: The church must be reminded that it is not the master or the servant of the state, but rather the conscience of the state. It must be the guide and the critic of the state, and never its tool. If the church does not recapture its prophetic zeal, it will become an irrelevant social club without moral or spiritual authority.
And that's what's happened. Rightwing fundamentalism has become an "irrelevant social club without moral or spiritual authority."
JimK
"I am not willing, though, to submit to their incomprehensible rules for living and believing"
And when the Rockville Pregnancy Center gave a talk about the importance of abstinence, the advice was free and no one was compelled to take it.
You want to do everything you can to prevent the knowledge of the Christian message. It's really that simple.
Listen idiot, I've known for years that they were going into the schools, and I didn't care, and I still don't. If you read this post, you'll see I don't say there's anything wrong with them going into the classrooms, though I did ask why they were there in the first place, which is a valid question -- what were they teaching, only that sex is dirty, or was there some other reason they were in the classroom?
I don't think it's a good idea to be so obsessive about one thing -- abortion, in this case -- that you lose perspective on what you're doing. These are real kids with real germs, and these guys totally lost touch with reality. They were kicked out of the schools for this stunt, and it sounds like they deserved it.
JimK
Jim said "...the Rockville Pregnancy Center, comes into their Health class to talk to them about ... how dirty sex is, I guess."
Orin said (twice) "This is FALSE Jim and you know it"
Really struck a nerve there, eh Orin? Truth hurts, doesn't it. That's the thing with you, anonymous, and the abstinence only crowd, protecting kids from pregnancy and STDs is secondary. Your primary goal is to minimize how much sex happens because you can't get over your own sexual hangups. You're so caught up in eliminating sex that you can't relinquish your unrealistic goal to adopt comprehensive sex ed even when abstinence only is shown to be a failure.
Sex is disgusting and shameful to you and you want to instill that in others lest they guiltlessly safely enjoy sex and make you uneasy with the knowledge that people are doing it. You abstinence only people hate gays because you've learned and taint the next generation with the idea that men are sexually repulsive and the thought of two guys together is twice as offensive as one man and a woman together.
You don't even like married adults having sex, to you its just a necessary evil to having children.
And if you could eliminate the need for that without having men touch themselves you'd happily do so, eliminate sex altogether, and demand that everyone follow your example.
"Listen idiot,"
I guess this is a promotion from hateful bigot. I'm moving up.
"I've known for years that they were going into the schools, and I didn't care, and I still don't."
Oh yeah, I can tell.
"If you read this post, you'll see I don't say there's anything wrong with them going into the classrooms, though I did ask why they were there in the first place, which is a valid question -- what were they teaching, only that sex is dirty, or was there some other reason they were in the classroom?"
So you had no idea why they were there? Implying that they think "sex is dirty" is slander. You don't have any support for the implication.
"I don't think it's a good idea to be so obsessive about one thing -- abortion, in this case"
When we become blase about the loss of life, we've become something monstrous.
Here's a quote from Mother Theresa:
"When, in any society, it becomes acceptable to kill your children, it's hard to see how it qualifies as a civilization."
"-- that you lose perspective on what you're doing. These are real kids with real germs, and these guys totally lost touch with reality."
It does sound gross but maybe it shocked these kids into realizing how similar promiscuity is with the circulation of germs through bodily fluids. Do you think they should have wrapped the gum in latex and let the kids chew it?
"They were kicked out of the schools for this stunt, and it sounds like they deserved it."
Any other organization would have gotten a good talking to. There are those looking for an excuse to exclude Christian groups from society. "I mean what were they doing there?" Would you dare say that about any other group? It's really only just begun.
Most of the speakers in the classes have some reason for being there. You and Orin don't like to think it, but I would say it's extremely likely that the reason these people were in the classroom was to teach the kids that sex is dirty.
You're ... you're not against that, are you?
JimK
"Really struck a nerve there, eh Orin? Truth hurts, doesn't it. That's the thing with you, anonymous, and the abstinence only crowd, protecting kids from pregnancy and STDs is secondary. Your primary goal is to minimize how much sex happens because you can't get over your own sexual hangups. You're so caught up in eliminating sex that you can't relinquish your unrealistic goal to adopt comprehensive sex ed even when abstinence only is shown to be a failure.
Sex is disgusting and shameful to you and you want to instill that in others lest they guiltlessly safely enjoy sex and make you uneasy with the knowledge that people are doing it. You abstinence only people hate gays because you've learned and taint the next generation with the idea that men are sexually repulsive and the thought of two guys together is twice as offensive as one man and a woman together.
You don't even like married adults having sex, to you its just a necessary evil to having children.
And if you could eliminate the need for that without having men touch themselves you'd happily do so, eliminate sex altogether, and demand that everyone follow your example."
Sounds like Orin's nerve isn't the one hit. Your whole thesis here is wrong and you have no basis for it. Let's see you produce one statement from the Pregancy Center or Orin that sex is "disgusting and shameful".
The message of Christianity is that sex is a gift from God intended to be enjoyed in a certain manner. The first recorded command from God to man was "be fruitful and multiply". If you want to read some erotic poetry, try Song of Solomon. Far from dirty, it is special and shouldn't be cheapened by promiscuity and lack of marital commitment.
You should stop making your wild accusation about everyone else's motives. People could do the same to you. Imagine if we began to speculate that the real reason you are so strident here is that after having yourself surgically altered, you realized deep down it was a mistake and you now go to extraordinary lengths to convince yourself you did the right thing. That would be similar to the nasty insinuations you keep making about others, wouldn't it?
"to teach the kids that sex is dirty.
You're ... you're not against that, are you?"
Yes, I am. That's not the Judeo-Christian message. Sex within marriage is a gift of God. To call it "dirty" would be wrong.
Indiscriminate, promiscuous sex outside of marriage is not part of God's plan and cheapens the value of the gift. There would be nothing wrong with promoting that message.
Just out of curiosity, Anon... could you give us a couple of verse-and-chapter sources for those beliefs?
JimK
And who, Anon, on this blog is both strident and surgically altered (as if most people haven't been surgically altered at some point(s) in their lives)?
Anonymous said "The message of Christianity is that sex is a gift from God intended to be enjoyed in a certain manner".
Like as little as possible because it's dirty. I know many, many christians, I was raised by
Christians and they all were loaded with sexual hangups and promoted the idea directly or indirectly that sex was disgusting and shameful. Relgion is obsessed with oppressing sexuality and you're a prime example of that.
Anonymous said "Imagine if we began to speculate that the real reason you are so strident here is...".
Imagine if? You mean "watch when".
You BS like you've been so restrained and polite up until now. You rant on and on about how I must be diseased, mentally ill, a child molester, try to associate me with Hitler and beastiality and I'm supposed to be worried about you getting rude. Give me a break. As if you know any restraint whatsoever
"You don't even like married adults having sex, to you its just a necessary evil to having children."
Randi.
You are kidding, right ?
"You rant on and on about how I must be diseased, mentally ill, a child molester, try to associate me with Hitler and beastiality"
I never said any of those things. Your problem is that you think all the anonymous posters that oppose TTF are the same person. It's really easy to tell them apart but since you seem to have trouble, you should just respond to each comment independently.
King Anon
"Just out of curiosity, Anon... could you give us a couple of verse-and-chapter sources for those beliefs?"
I'd love to. Give me a day to find the right ones. You could start by reading the Song of Solomon. It's not that long.
Meanwhile, could you guys work on this?:
"Let's see you produce one statement from the Pregancy Center or Orin that sex is "disgusting and shameful"."
Orin laughed, "because the means justify the ends"? LOL!!! The same can and has been said about embryonic stem cell research "
Couples and women who choose to donate their unneeded embryos for adoption by others who are unable to conceive naturally but wish to give birth, are free to do so. However, they may have any number of reasons, religious or otherwise, for not wanting to donate their unneeded embryos for adoption by others. Some fertility clinic clients might prefer to donate their unneeded embryos for research in hopes of bettering mankind's condition while some others may prefer to help another family give birth to an adopted child. Whatever your preference, you have the choice to determine what will happen to your unneeded embryos.
Having a guest speaker come into our schools, into our students' health classes to encourage our teens to risk exposure to others' germs without informed consent of their parents is outrageous. This stunt came less than 3 weeks after the Washington Post published this article on the front page of the Metro section:
"The Most Wonderful Time Of the Year, for Germs, Too
Strains of Flu Viruses Just Love a Party
By Michael E. Ruane
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 22, 2006; Page B01
They're lying in wait, ready to pounce and eager for your first mistake.
Norovirus. Parainfluenza. Respiratory syncytial virus. The flu.
Grab a contaminated doorknob. Kiss your sniffling boyfriend. Drink from your sick child's cup.
Bang, they've got you....
To avoid illness, and prevent passing it on, take the standard precautions, said Kimberly Cordero, spokeswoman for the Fairfax Health Department: Wash your hands thoroughly with soap and water several times a day, or use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer. When sneezing or coughing, do so into a sleeve or tissue, not into your hand.
And use common sense..."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/21/AR2006122101552_2.html
As required by law, before the human sexuality portion of the health education curriculum is presented to MCPS students, a meeting is offered at each school where health teachers present the health curriculum, information, and materials to parents who are asked to grant their students permission to take the class. Shockingly, guest speakers are not required to present their information and materials to parents or to get parental approval of their curriculum before it is offered in class. This is wrong and must change. Privately funded religious groups should not be given access to our teens in our public schools without parents granting permission after being informed of the groups' curriculum, information, and materials, just like MCPS.
Anon - Teaching abstinence is important. Teaching underlying health and medical reasons to practice abstinence is also important, however, teaching religious reasons to practice abstinence in our public schools violates the US Constitution's First Amendment.
Aunt Bea
"Your problem is that you think all the anonymous posters that oppose TTF are the same person."
If you're too lazy forgetful or whatever to sign a name, then you are all the same.
PTA
Don't start referencing the "Song of Songs," Anon, or any other aspect of the Hebrew Bible. As with anything scientific, you're a completely ignorant individual on this topic.
... could start by reading the Song of Solomon...
No, Anon, of course I'm familiar with the Song of Solomon. I mean, tell us where in the Bible that says that "indiscriminate, promiscuous sex outside of marriage is not part of God's plan "
I'm sure it's in there, it would just help the discussion if we had some actual scripture to look at, so we'd know what "God's plan" is, as He Himself stated it, and not your interpretation.
JimK
Good story in Post today about how wacko and far-out the new proposed propagandistic sex-ed curriculum is.
As for MCPS using COMAR as justification, there's this:
Dixie Stack, curriculum director for the Maryland State Department of Education said there is nothing "specific in COMAR...that says homosexuality must be taught. The truth is, the language in COMAR is not specific about what should be taught."
Other school systems teach what homosexuality is but don't promote it, as the new proposed propagandistic curriculum does. In Fairfax County, "classes emphasize respect, dignity and the notion that people have different and strongly held beliefs on homosexuality" said Paul Regnier, Fairfax school system spokesman.
Looks like the media is turning against TTF again.
"Don't start referencing the "Song of Songs," Anon, or any other aspect of the Hebrew Bible."
Already did and will again. Don't understand how someone who rejects scripture has become so possessive of it. Bizarre.
"As with anything scientific, you're a completely ignorant individual on this topic."
You should talk. We've all been subjected to your pseudo-scientific reasoning before.
"No, Anon, of course I'm familiar with the Song of Solomon."
Why would I know that?
"I mean, tell us where in the Bible that says that "indiscriminate, promiscuous sex outside of marriage is not part of God's plan "
I'm sure it's in there, it would just help the discussion if we had some actual scripture to look at, so we'd know what "God's plan" is, as He Himself stated it, and not your interpretation."
Thanks for clarifying and don't think anyone is forgetting that you're dodging this:
"Let's see you produce one statement from the Pregancy Center or Orin that sex is "disgusting and shameful"."
"Anon - Teaching abstinence is important. Teaching underlying health and medical reasons to practice abstinence is also important, however, teaching religious reasons to practice abstinence in our public schools violates the US Constitution's First Amendment."
Still waiting for any evidence that the Rockville Pregnancy Center did that. Religious people aren't barred from appearance in our society.
"however, teaching religious reasons to practice abstinence in our public schools violates the US Constitution's First Amendment"
It's not been shown that they did that but, nah, it's not unconstitutional. Not if it's part of community values. Teaching kids the historical sexual morality standards is not forcing them to participate in any denomination or liturgical tradition or even religion. Sexual morality is pretty consistent among most religions.
Rockville [Crisis] Pregnancy Center website quote: http://www.rcpc.org/respect.html
"Will he respect me in the morning?
If you don't give him your body, yes he will. He might break up with you since you didn't give him sex but he will respect you as a girl that holds herself as valuable and has the ability to say "NO!"
After speaking with thousands of guys about this, never have I heard a guy say it wasn't cool for a girl to be a virgin; in fact, many guys say they want to marry a virgin. If you have sex, he could still respect you but often his desire to learn about you and grow in understanding of your relationship, dies. Sex takes over the relationship and soon physical connections are all the ties you have. Open and honest communications often disappear and create stress in sexual relationships."
The above quote is exactly the kind of thing the public school should be teaching. Hope it's the message the Pregnancy Center brought to Einstein.
Sex is not dirty but saved for a special place and time. No religious beliefs are mentioned.
The above quote is exactly what they should NOT be teaching. We're talking about health classes which are basically science classes, yet there are no scientific sources cited for any of the information included. There is no information regarding the sample of "thousands of guys" they claim to have spoken to. What data was collected, how was the data collected, how were the questions worded, and what type of statistical analyses were done on the data? Were variables such as age, race, socio-economic status, ethnicity, religion, etc. controlled for in the analyses or not?
No religious beliefs are mentioned on that page of the website. Try learning a few more facts about the Rockville Crisis Pregnancy Center by going to their webpage Jim refererenced above - the first link via the word "counsel" in this blog.
The title is "Take a test to see if you're going to heaven" and then it lists more than 40 quotes from the Buy-bull. Not religious? That's a laugh.
I never said the Center wasn't religious. I know many people who do volunteer work there and I'm familiar with their work.
I just don't think they made any religious statements at Einstein and I don't anyone there has said "sex is dirty". This is an example of a TTF special. It's a lie.
I said "You don't even like married adults having sex, to you its just a necessary evil to having children."
Theresa said "Randi.
You are kidding, right ?"
Quite serious Theresa. Admittedly not all, but most religious conservatives I know are opposed to sex in general. They're uptight about any mention of it and ashamed of their own sexuality.
Anonymous said "I never said any of those things. Your problem is that you think all the anonymous posters that oppose TTF are the same person."
How convenient, makes it easy for you to lie and disown your words when you post as anonymous. If you want to distinguish yourself its up to you to do so, otherwise you've got no one to blame but yourself and that's just T.F.B.
Anonymous said "It's really easy to tell [anonymous posters] apart but since you seem to have trouble, you should just respond to each comment independently".
There's no way to tell anonymous posters apart. If you want to be anonymous you have to accept the reality that you own the words of posts labelled as anonymous. As PTA said, you're all the same. And don't tell me how to respond to comments.
Your problem is that you think all the anonymous posters that oppose TTF are the same person. It's really easy to tell them apart but since you seem to have trouble, you should just respond to each comment independently.
King Anon
"Let's see you produce one statement from the Pregancy Center or Orin that sex is "disgusting and shameful"."
Randi
Are you thinking about how you're going to answer this question?
You're probably kind of embarassed you jumped into that deception.
At least Randi isn't too embarassed to sign her name to her posts like you are.
Pat Tipton
Anonymous said ""Let's see you produce one statement from the Pregancy Center or Orin that sex is "disgusting and shameful"."
I never claimed they made any statements to that effect. Its obvious from your's and their's obsession with eliminating sex you suffer from this kind of sexual hangup.
"Its obvious from your's and their's obsession with eliminating sex you suffer from this kind of sexual hangup."
What kind of sexual hang-up, Randi?
WE definitely should be emphasizing to teenagers that they should NOT be having sex.
And I agree with Anon that we should definitely be telling them that guys won't respect them in the morning if they do, that most guys ARE just after one thing, that the chances you will end up marrying your sixteen year old boyfriend are just about nil, that it complicates things, that it will hurt your self image and the way others perceive you.. that it isn't necessarily special to the teenage boy the way it is special to you, etc, etc, etc.
That you will regret it SO DON'T.
of course, ttf thinks they should start at ten as does our county, the age they deem it appropriate to teach them everything about it.
Theresa, you must realize that you are almost quoting verbatim from the last curriculum, the one that CRC sued to suppress.
Those are important lessons, I agree. I didn't understand why you guys wanted something different. well, I guess it's one of those "be careful what you wish for" things...
JimK
And, I hate to have to say it, but ... you just made up the "start at ten" thing, out of thin air. I would be very surprised if you showed us where any of us said that.
I might personally differ from you as far as what I think ten-year-olds can handle, and that's why I wouldn't want you to raise my kids and you wouldn't want me to raise yours. But as for the curriculum, I don't think we have ever advocated anything but changes to the 8th and 10th grade curricula.
JimK
Theresa reveals herself again. How silly to say the county and TTF want kids to start having sex at 10. That is false and makes you sound ridiculous. Kids start learning about sex as early as needed. Didn't you tell your children when they were quite young about privacy and not letting anyone(outside of the dr and parents) see or touch their private parts(I am not sure you could manage the actual words)? That is part of teaching about sex too.
I'll chime in, too. I agree with everything Theresa said up to the "age 10" comment, though I think 13-14 is way too late these days. I'd go for 11-12. And that's with puberty coming as early as 8-9 for some girls.
I, too, didn't want my children having sex as adolescents. But, Theresa, please enlighten us -- should young adults have sex, say, post-18? I imagine you wouldn't want your children to do so, but just in general. Given the data published in the NYTimes yesterday which showed that for the first time in American history a majority of adult women are not living with men (and aren't too upset about it, either), I think your attempt to postpone sexual intimacy until a marriage which may very well never happen is doomed to failure. Regardless of religious belief or ideological slant. And it's all because of the economic empowerment of women over the past half century.
Montgomery County teaches the kids all about sex in the spring of fifth grade.
That's ten or eleven.
And that's too early. But of course, the BOE is considering pushing it down a grade.
Theresa, TeachTheFacts is involved in supporting a comprehensive and inclusive sex-ed curriculum for the 8th and 10th grades, in particular the condom and sexual orientation lessons. I think it's pretty clear that most of us have a different idea about sex and about children from you, and I wouldn't be surprised if we had different opinions about sex-ed for fifth-graders. But we're all allowed to have opinions, you and us as well; there's nobody, as far as I know, trying to get MCPS to change the 5th-grade curriculum.
JimK
Randi rites,
I never claimed they made any statements to that effect. Its obvious from your's and their's obsession with eliminating sex you suffer from this kind of sexual hangup.
Correct...it was what Jim essentially said in this blog entry.
As to sexual hangups...hummm, now that is tempting...should I? LOL...
Well, point of fact, I have few sexual hangups, that is at least ones that I am aware of at this moment. Now perhaps some time when I get back to the DC area to visit family, friends and my favorite museum in DC, the National Portrait Gallery, Randi and I can get together for breakfast or lunch (sorry, dinner is already set aside) and perhaps she can help me understand myself better...what do you say, Randi? Oh, and then there is Cake Love, a DC area bakery I have been dying to try...
Sexual hangups? You could ask my 17 year old, but then I'll have to warn you: consider the "source".
Sorry, would LOVE to write some more, but work called and now I am off to get trained in an abstinence-only education. Get this, it is a nearly $300 course, and because of a FEDERAL grant that WAIT Training received I get to take the course for FREE! Remember: your tax dollars at work...anyone think this gives Rep Henry Waxman heartburn? LOL!
Orin thinks it's funny that Waxman might be experiencing "heartburn" over Orin's good luck to obtain federal faith-based funding to be trained in abstinence-only education, something Orin already knows quite a bit about, while at the same time Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki Stresses Urgency In Arming Iraqi Forces so we can bring our troops home.
I don't think that's funny one bit.
Orin, I live in Saskatchewan at well below the poverty line so I won't be meeting you in DC for breakfast or lunch anytime soon. Let me know next time you come into Regina or Saskatoon and then we can talk.
Orin,
I'd be happy to escort you to Cake Love down on U and 15th.
That Cake Love place is overrated, Orin. They have some interesting flavor combinations but the cake is dry and the frosting is like plaster. At $3 dollars for a cupcake, it's a little pricey. The staff is also a little surly.
Try Heller's Bakery in Mount Pleasant.
I went to Poolesville High School and we did this activity in 2003 in my health class.
I'm a student at AEHS and in my sophmore year, I participated in this "excercise."
A few of us VOLUNTEERED for this activity and we understood that we did not have to do it.
Now that I think of it?...It was stupid....but I was the first to chew.
Nice design of blog.
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