Big Gay Preacher Not Gay
This just in: Reverend Ted Haggard is not, I repeat, not gay.
From the Denver Post:
Yeah, Ted, you're not gay. But, uh, don't stand so close to me, OK? And stop looking at me like that.
It really doesn't sound like his colleagues are quite buying it.
Further down in this story, we read:
So, here's what I'm looking for: is this guy an "ex-gay?"
It sounds like they're saying he never was gay, he just "acted out" sometimes. So that would mean nope, you can't be "ex-gay" unless you've been gay first.
I thought we had one there for a minute.
A guy who strongly desires to have sex with another man may define his behavior in such a way that it's just a capricious pleasure he indulges in, like those people you know who stick their head out the door and take a puff off a cigarette every hour or so, but swear they "don't smoke." And look, you know as well as I do: they smoke.
From the Denver Post:
The Rev. Ted Haggard emerged from three weeks of intensive counseling convinced he is "completely heterosexual" and told an oversight board that his sexual contact with men was limited to his accuser.
That is according to one of the disgraced pastor's overseers, who on Monday revealed new details about where Haggard has been and where he is headed.
The Rev. Tim Ralph of Larkspur also said the four-man oversight board strongly urged Haggard to go into secular work instead of Christian ministry if Haggard and his wife follow through on plans to earn master's degrees in psychology. Haggard says he's not gay
Yeah, Ted, you're not gay. But, uh, don't stand so close to me, OK? And stop looking at me like that.
It really doesn't sound like his colleagues are quite buying it.
Further down in this story, we read:
Ralph said three weeks of counseling at an undisclosed Arizona treatment center helped Haggard immensely and left Haggard sure of one thing.
"He is completely heterosexual," Ralph said. "That is something he discovered. It was the acting- out situations where things took place. It wasn't a constant thing."
Why Haggard chose to act out in that manner is something Haggard and his advisers are trying to discern, Ralph said.
In investigating Haggard's assertion that his extramarital sexual contact was limited to former male escort Mike Jones, the board talked to people close to Haggard and found no evidence contradicting him, Ralph said.
So, here's what I'm looking for: is this guy an "ex-gay?"
It sounds like they're saying he never was gay, he just "acted out" sometimes. So that would mean nope, you can't be "ex-gay" unless you've been gay first.
I thought we had one there for a minute.
A guy who strongly desires to have sex with another man may define his behavior in such a way that it's just a capricious pleasure he indulges in, like those people you know who stick their head out the door and take a puff off a cigarette every hour or so, but swear they "don't smoke." And look, you know as well as I do: they smoke.
posted by JimK at 1:37 PM
12 Comments:
LMAO!!!
Uh, sorry, Ted- load of bull- if you have same-sex sex- you are gay. What the heck is "acting out"- a new FOTF term for using drugs and having sex with a male prostitute?
This is funny.
Usually, TTF is screaming being gay has nothing to do with behavior. Now, this guy says he doesn't feel gay and they say behavior is what matters.
Hypocrisy Central.
Jim writes
Orin, that is an interesting comment that Haggard has made, and your reaction is interesting too -- I take it you don't exactly believe him.
Call me skeptical, ok? It was just the way the headline struck me...as, well, ridiculous, and I laughed out loud.
This comes down the the question of that strange component called "identity" or "self-identification." He's not gay because he says he's not gay. He's turned on by men, and has thrown away his whole family and career to go do meth and have sex with a gay hooker, but because he does not see himself as a gay man, he isn't one.
Ted Haggard's life, wife and family are all salvagable, though what it will all look like years hence will I suspect look quite different.
This logic opens the door for people to identify themselves as "ex-gay," when they are ... well, anybody would say they're just plain gay.
Though I think re-orienting one's sexual inclination is more problematic then its' advocates will admit, it is possible. Still, it is also highly difflicult.
Also not taken into consideration is the very real potential for ridicule, scorn and contempt that that those who once identified as gay are treated should they ever decide to try a differnt life. The one parallel that comes to mind, though inexact, is any black American that becomes an outspoken conservative - seen as a traitor to their race.
But really now...that would not happen because gays and lesbians are innately more tolerant, right?
I don't follow Seinfeld, but if you meant the punchline I'm thinking of, it wouldn't have been on network TV!
Jerry: I'm not gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
The way they have this quote though does not do justice to the way Seinfeld had it come across on tv. More quotes found here,
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098904/quotes
Orin, that wasn't the punchline I was thinking of. Never mind. This wouldn't be the place to tell every joke I know.
Anon, as far as Haggard and his behavior etc. I'm sure there are guys who really don't feel like they're gay, but they just can't help themselves when they see an ad for a bodybuilder/masseuse in the local gay newspaper. Sorry, self-report is not reliable in this situation.
JimK
omg!!! okaaay--he's not gay. i believe a person has the right to declare himself straight because he only has same-sex relations with one male prostitute. i respect a person's right to proclaim himself gay, bi, trans, ex-gay or whatever; a person likewise has the right to declare himself "not a drunk" by virtue of the fact that he "only drinks beer"...by the 12 pack. as i always joke with my kids, you can call yourself the president of the united states, but don't expect to fly around on airforce one!!!
To be serious for a second -- it may be that the "ex-gay" missions only change what a guy calls himself. That might be a big deal, to stop thinking of yourself as "gay," but ...
(Your still gay)
"Sorry, self-report is not reliable in this situation."
No, it isn't. But you guys are acting like the behavior is conclusive, a point you deny when it doesn't go your way.
"Though I think re-orienting one's sexual inclination is more problematic then its' advocates will admit, it is possible. Still, it is also highly difflicult."
I don't think I've ever heard anyone downplay the difficulty of this restoration. Quite the contrary.
Ha ha ha ha
Anonymous said ""Sorry, self-report is not reliable in this situation.""
"No, it isn't. But you guys are acting like the behavior is conclusive, a point you deny when it doesn't go your way.".
Trouble is anonymous, a gay man will have straight sex to pretend he's not gay, but a straight man never has gay sex to pretend he's not straight. Its believable that a gay man will have straight sex, but its a good deal less believable that a straight man will have gay sex.
Orin said "Also not taken into consideration is the very real potential for ridicule, scorn and contempt that that those who once identified as gay are treated should they ever decide to try a differnt life".
Come off it Orin. Nobody is ridiculed, scorned, or shown contempt for living as straight. If "exgays" are discriminiated against its because of their being associated with being gay, not because they are trying to be straight. "Exgays" promote the idea that being gay is bad and as such are partially responsible for their own rejection due to their association with gayness.
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