There They Go
As would be predicted, the rightwing web sites have picked up the amazingly important news story about a lady at a gym seeing somebody with big hands and muscles in a skirt in the ladies locker room here in Montgomery County. The person may have been a man.
Let's say a guy really did walk into a ladies locker room in a dress. Is that really news?
There are two interesting details in this World Net Daily article (which I'm not going to post here). First, the lady's name is different here from the Channel Seven version that we talked about recently. That was Mary Ann Ondray, this is Mary Ann Andree, even though the WND article quotes Channel 7's version, uses their quotes and everything. So you kind of wonder how they got the story straight; WND interviewed Michelle Turner of the Citizens for a Responsible Whatever, maybe she corrected the spelling.
The second interesting fact is this:
It is our understanding that the group has a deadline. They have to have 12,500 signatures, which is half the needed 25,000, turned into the Board of Elections by February 4th, or their big referendum drive is over. They started December 1st or so, and got 3,000 signatures in 6 weeks. Now they need 9,500 more signatures in approximately two weeks.
They need a way to make stupid people believe that there is suddenly a real threat from perverted men in dresses lurking in ladies rooms, because it is suddenly illegal to discriminate against transgender people. Hmm, what can we think of? <strokes_chin_thoughtfully>
This publicity stunt is obviously intended to provoke people to sign the petitions, and it is good to know about Channel Seven. There have been times that I have watched their news and thought it was pretty good, but now we know better. This wasn't a news story, the CRW just needed to stir up some excitement, they needed to scare people into signing their ridiculous petitions, and Channel 7 was the only commercial local news outlet to fall for it.
This just in: The Examiner also fell for it. They talked to the gym's manager, it looks like:
It seems to me that the fact that an incident may not have happened would reduce its importance as a news story.
Let's say a guy really did walk into a ladies locker room in a dress. Is that really news?
There are two interesting details in this World Net Daily article (which I'm not going to post here). First, the lady's name is different here from the Channel Seven version that we talked about recently. That was Mary Ann Ondray, this is Mary Ann Andree, even though the WND article quotes Channel 7's version, uses their quotes and everything. So you kind of wonder how they got the story straight; WND interviewed Michelle Turner of the Citizens for a Responsible Whatever, maybe she corrected the spelling.
The second interesting fact is this:
[CRW spokesperson Michelle] Turner said more than 3,000 citizens already have signed the petition, which needs 25,000 signatures by Feb. 16 in order to put the law before voters in November.
It is our understanding that the group has a deadline. They have to have 12,500 signatures, which is half the needed 25,000, turned into the Board of Elections by February 4th, or their big referendum drive is over. They started December 1st or so, and got 3,000 signatures in 6 weeks. Now they need 9,500 more signatures in approximately two weeks.
They need a way to make stupid people believe that there is suddenly a real threat from perverted men in dresses lurking in ladies rooms, because it is suddenly illegal to discriminate against transgender people. Hmm, what can we think of? <strokes_chin_thoughtfully>
This publicity stunt is obviously intended to provoke people to sign the petitions, and it is good to know about Channel Seven. There have been times that I have watched their news and thought it was pretty good, but now we know better. This wasn't a news story, the CRW just needed to stir up some excitement, they needed to scare people into signing their ridiculous petitions, and Channel 7 was the only commercial local news outlet to fall for it.
This just in: The Examiner also fell for it. They talked to the gym's manager, it looks like:
Kelly Nicholson, general manager for the gym, said the person exited the locker room quickly and the gym could not verify that the incident had occurred.
It seems to me that the fact that an incident may not have happened would reduce its importance as a news story.
posted by JimK at 6:30 AM
40 Comments:
Andrea- not anon
"The person exited quickly but the gym couldn't verify the story." Uh, if they can't verify the story- how do they even know there was a person?
recently I had a medical procedure in which I was under anesthesia . During the procedure, I saw a giant movie screen but no one can verify my story either. I think it was Yeti, the Jersey Devil or Big Foot in the locker room- or Ben Patton in a blue ruffled skirt.
It reeks horribly of a publicity stunt; also, prejudice against women with large hands. Must all women look like the Venus de Milo?
I'm reminded of PFOX' hullabaloo about "gay activists" assaulting their "ex-gays" at the Arlington County Fair. PFOX and CRW are willing to make all sorts of unsupported, undocumented statements statements about LGBT people doing terrible things to them.
Next I bet there will be a story about an obviously gay person seen poisoning the wells.
Don't they recognize this as pure prejudice?
Pity my poor students. Today are Latin midterms.
"This publicity stunt is obviously intended to provoke people to sign the petitions"
Another in a long line of TTF's statements made without a shred of proof.
They just kinda know it, in a metaphysical way.
The proof is there: CRC and CRW really are into cross dressing and just don't want anyone to know... so they, just like all anti-gay things, express extreme faulse hate to cover up their real identities.
Sad, sad, sad.
If they were really into crossdressing they wouldn't have chosen such a tacky outfit (in reality or in a made-up story, whichever the case may be).
Robert does raise an issue that I have left alone up to this point: The setting was a gym. Are there really no muscular women who frequent this locker room? Having heard several stories of women with very athletic physiques (yes, including "big hands") who have inadvertently startled other women in such settings, that would have been a plausible explanation.
Except for the heavy makeup and ugly skirt part :) That's where they blew it. A promising avenue of investigation might be to find out how long Mary Ann Ondray/Andree has been a member of this gym - and certainly whether she is a signatory to the petition, and the date of her signature. Good catch on the spelling of her name.
I'm with Robert, seems like another lie similiar to the one abuot "gay activists" assaulting their "exgays" at the fair.
Well, TTF is definitely making up a bunch of accusations with no evidence. What do you expect when something they said is impossible happens?
It should be pointed out that something TTF claims as a reason for the legislation has not happened. No guys dressed up as girls have been assaulted in men's rooms in MC.
Robert did have a point worth discussing though. How did people know this was a guy? It begs the question: if you can't tell the difference between a guy dressing as a girl and girl, why is this legislation needed? And if you can tell, why is the legislation appropriate? Clearly, the whole goal here is to blend gender distinctions and advance the gay agenda.
chair dare,
can you speak facts and not anti-gay industry semantics about the so-called "gay agenda."
I say that because I am a gay man and I haven't received my copy yet.
And please stop trying to change the subject. The incident, which could NOT be verified, reeks of a desperate media ploy. And what makes it worse, the folks who may be behind it are undermining the Christian ethics they claim to believe in.
More sloppy language usage from chair dare, I see.
No one, to my knowledge, has said that any given occurrence is "impossible." That would be hyperbole. The fact remains that what is alleged to have happened by Michelle's group (and how exactly did they have knowledge of this, again?) has never happened anywhere else that similar legislation has been adopted.
It's not very hard to put two and two together here. In the event of charges being filed against the perpetrator(s), then it will appropriate to talk about "proof." As things stand, people will decide for themselves what explanation seems most plausible.
"The fact remains that what is alleged to have happened by Michelle's group (and how exactly did they have knowledge of this, again?) has never happened anywhere else that similar legislation has been adopted."
Do you know that, or is this more hyperbole?
"It's not very hard to put two and two together here. In the event of charges being filed against the perpetrator(s), then it will appropriate to talk about "proof.""
Why could charges be filed against behavior the county has legalized? Where would the charges be filed? In Lapland?
Red Baron, Stop with the Chair dare nonsense. Its fundamentaly dishonest to pretend you are two or more people. That's against the 10 commandments that you profess to follow, you should apologize for this and repent.
Red Baron said "if you can't tell the difference between a guy dressing as a girl and girl, why is this legislation needed? And if you can tell, why is the legislation appropriate?".
Its needed because some people will discriminate against transpeople. Its apropriate because its wrong to discriminate against people without damn good reason and that someone was born in the wrong body is not a good reason to discriminate against them.
Red Baron said "Why could charges be filed against behavior the county has legalized?".
Men in women's changerooms has not been legalized. In the unlikely event that this isn't entirely made up it is illegal for someone to be in a women's changeroom unless they are genetically female or a transwoman. If a male goes into the ladies changeroom that would still be prosecutable under the same law(s) that it always was.
Do you know that, or is this hyperbole?
Yes, I am reasonably certain of that. It's been pretty thoroughly researched.
Why could charges be filed against behavior the county has legalized?
That is a very good question, because I'm not sure what, if any, charges can be brought against an individual or group that perpetrates a fraud like this. Simply knowing, for instance, that the person was associated with CRC or another transphobic group is circumstantial. How do you prove that their intent was to create a false incident, and is that even a crime? I don't know the answer to this.
However, whatever the answer may be, the county hasn't "acted to legalize" such behavior, it's either legal or it isn't. It has nothing to do with the anti-discrimination statute.
Chair Dare said "if you can't tell the difference between a guy dressing as a girl and girl, why is this legislation needed?"
Wrong Randi said "Its needed because some people will discriminate against transpeople."
Smart Chair Dare says: How can you be discriminated against if you can't be detected?
Chair Dare said: "And if you can tell, why is the legislation appropriate?".
Wrong Randi said: "Its apropriate because its wrong to discriminate against people without damn good reason"
Smart Chair Dare says: The damn good reason is that we have decided that bathroom owners can segregate restrooms by gender is they so desire.
Retired football coach said: "That's a good thing, not a bad thing."
Wrong Randi said: "and that someone was born in the wrong body is not a good reason to discriminate against them."
Smart Chair Dare says: There is absolutely not one sliver of a piece of evidence even slightly suggesting that anyone's gender is any different than the chromosomal make-up they were born with.
Chair Dare said "Why could charges be filed against behavior the county has legalized?".
Wrong Randi said: "If a male goes into the ladies changeroom that would still be prosecutable under the same law(s) that it always was."
Smart Chair Dare asks: And what law would that be?
Red Baron said " How can you be discriminated against if you can't be detected?".
Some people will just assume a less feminine looking woman is a male. Transwomen all have people that know their past as male bodied people - you can't hide it no matter how well you fit the female stereotype.
Red Baron said "The damn good reason is that we have decided that bathroom owners can segregate restrooms by gender is they so desire.".
And nothing's stopping them from continuing to do so. Transwoman will use the bathroom most appropriate to them - the ladies bathroom.
Red Baron said "There is absolutely not one sliver of a piece of evidence even slightly suggesting that anyone's gender is any different than the chromosomal make-up they were born with.".
False. Studies have shown that transwoman have brain structures that are similar to genetic women and both are different then the same sexual brain structures in men. The existence of thousands of transpeople who report a psychological gender differing from their chromosomes is further evidence. Fact is it is YOU who has not one sliver of evidence to suggest that transpeople's gender identity doesn't differ from their chromosomal makeup.
Red Baron said "And what law would that be?".
The exact same law that was used to prosecute such incursions prior to the implementation of the anti-discrimination law. What are you stupid, or something?
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The anti-gay Republican D.A. that opposed the overturning of the federal sodomy law has been caught in a sex scandal:
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=3711DC8E2282498B1EF673988C32806E?diaryId=4199
A clear pattern is evident with anti-gay republicans, its just one after another, after another...
Just in case the answer to Randi's final question @ 3:00pm is "yes," some clarification.
The only reason that a man would enter a ladies' locker room would be to leer at, harass, or assault the ladies therein. (At least as far as I know. If anyone can come up with some legitimate reason for a man to do this, please share it.)
All of those behaviors are currently illegal. The mere presence of a man is not now nor has in the past been illegal, since by definition that presence implies a behavior that is illegal.
The new law provides not one whit of change to this status quo.
Regardless of whether anyone "believes" that transgender people exist, transgender women do not enter women's facilities to engage in those illegal behaviors. Nor do non-transgender men pretend to be transgender women to engage in those illegal behaviors. If they did, professionals whose job entails tracking these things would know about it. Even if they were to suddenly start doing it (after over a decade in nearly 100 other jurisdictions), the behaviors would still be illegal.
I hope that this is sufficiently detailed to satisfy your concerns.
Revealed: The source of CRC/G/W ideas and objectives.
From Kuwait (via Pam's House Blend):
Security officials have arrested at least 14 people in Kuwait City since the National Assembly approved an addition (Article 199 bis) to Article 198 of the Criminal Code. The amendment states that "any person committing an indecent act in a public place, or imitating the appearance of a member of the opposite sex, shall be subject to imprisonment for a period not exceeding one year or a fine not exceeding one thousand dinars [US$3,500]."
Dress codes based solely on gender stereotypes restrict both freedom of expression and personal autonomy, Human Rights Watch said. The only known targets of the new Kuwaiti law have been transgender people - individuals born into one gender who deeply identify themselves with another. Kuwait allows transgender people neither to change their legal identity to match the gender in which they live, nor to adapt their physical appearance through gender reassignment surgery. The new law, coming after months of controversy, aims at further restricting their rights and completely eliminating their public presence. In September 2007, the newspaper Al Arabiya reported a new government campaign "to combat the growing phenomenon of gays and transsexuals" in Kuwait.
Isn't that what they want? Show me any reason to think otherwise.
LONDON (Jan. 18) - In the two decades since AIDS began sweeping the globe, it has often been labeled as the biggest threat to international health.
Some AIDS experts are now wondering if it might be wise to shift some of the billions of dollars of AIDS money to basic health problems like clean water, family planning or diarrhea.
"If we look at the data objectively, we are spending too much on AIDS," said Dr. Malcolm Potts, an AIDS expert at the University of California, Berkeley, who once worked with prostitutes on the front lines of the epidemic in Ghana.
Problems like malnutrition, pneumonia and malaria kill more children in Africa than AIDS.
The world invests about $8 billion to $10 billion in AIDS every year, more than 100 times what it spends on water projects in developing countries. Yet more than 2 billion people do not have access to adequate sanitation, and about 1 billion lack clean water.
In a recent series in the journal Lancet, experts wrote that more than one-third of child deaths and 11 percent of the total disease burden worldwide are due to mothers and children not getting enough to eat — or not getting enough nutritional food.
"We have a system in public health where the loudest voice gets the most money," said Dr. Richard Horton, editor of Lancet. "AIDS has grossly distorted our limited budget."
THE MAJORITY OF MARYLAND VOTERS SUPPORT SAME-SEX UNTIONS (WWW.NBC4.COM)
1/17/2007
BALTIMORE -- A new poll said most voters in Maryland support some form of legalized same-sex unions.
The poll for The (Baltimore) Sun by Annapolis-based Opinionworks shows 19 percent of likely voters support gay marriage, and 39 percent support civil unions. Thirty-one percent of those polled oppose either form of same-sex unions and 11 percent either weren't sure or did not answer.
Gay-rights activists want state lawmakers to pass a marriage bill. Gov. Martin O'Malley and House Speaker Michael E. Busch have endorsed civil unions, but Senate President Thomas V. Mike Miller opposes both civil unions and same-sex marriage.
The telephone poll of 904 voters was conducted Jan. 6-9. It has a margin of error of 3.5 percentage points.
declining population equals cultural suicide
Oh, Anon... you are one big MESS.
Get counseling; save us all the trouble of entertaining your multiple personalities (you are lucky that you are protected at work by law for your psychotic condition).
Anon said, "declining population equals cultural suicide."
As long as the declining population is compiled of people like you... we are in a win-win situation for all! That'll just take us one more step towards World Peace; weeding out bigots and hate mongers like you would only be a positive.
The real truth about the Ex-Gay Movement: "Abomination"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w3-tOfGEtA
"As long as the declining population is compiled of people like you... we are in a win-win situation for all! That'll just take us one more step towards World Peace; weeding out bigots and hate mongers like you would only be a positive."
Well, I hate to tell you, David, but that's not what's going to happen. I guess no one is surprised that gays don't generally tend to reproduce. That's the reason we know that homosexuality is not of a genetic basis. If it were, the gene would quickly disappear.
Not as obvious, however, is that irreligious people don't tend to reproduce. There is a direct correlation between the level of religious activity in a country and population growth:
"Bucking the trend in many other wealthy industrialized nations, the United States seems to be experiencing a baby boomlet, reporting the largest number of children born in 45 years.
An Associated Press review of birth numbers dating to 1909 found the total number of U.S. births was the highest since 1961, near the end of the baby boom. An examination of global data also shows that the United States has a higher fertility rate than every country in continental Europe, as well as Australia, Canada and Japan."
Continental Europe, Australia, Canada, Japan: these places have largely forsaken religious belief.
United States: most religious industrialized country in the world. Africa, Asia, Latin America: religion is booming and so is the population.
What gay sympathizers need to hope is that Christian societies, where the strategy is to convert and redeem gays, predominate. If the Islamic societies, whose strategy is to exterminate gays, were to predominate, you wouldn't like the result.
So far, Christian growth outpaces Islamic. Gays and atheists should pray that the trend continues.
Bucking the trend in many other wealthy industrialized nations, the United States seems to be experiencing a baby boomlet, reporting the largest number of children born in 45 years.
An Associated Press review of birth numbers dating to 1909 found the total number of U.S. births was the highest since 1961, near the end of the baby boom. An examination of global data also shows that the United States has a higher fertility rate than every country in continental Europe, as well as Australia, Canada and Japan.
Oh, Anon... since we are making up names for each other I will call you..."Bush". Just for fun's sake.
On another note... to everyone in the DC Metropolitan Area:
Local government agencies were setting up hypothermia shelters Saturday in anticipation of the cold. If you see someone who needs help, call the Hypothermia Hotline at 800-535-7252.
Theresa sends out this shockingly inflammatory email (note that according to her the law in question has not yet taken effect, so I just don't see how it is being "tested" by the incident this woman mistakenly reports of the lady with the large hands and muscles):
: We told you so....
Dear ,
We told them so !
But neither the Council nor the County Executive would listen. We said that women would be faced with men, 'real' transgender or not, entering their most intimate and private spaces if Bill 23-07 were passed. And it happened on Tuesday at a local sports and health club when a man wearing a skirt quickly walked through the women's shower and dressing rooms.
Duchy Trachtenberg, the councilwoman who introduced the bill, said it couldn't, it wouldn't happen, but it did. Ms. Trachtenberg raised almost $400,000 in campaign funds, twice what other council members raised for their election efforts. Notably, however, about 65% came from outside of the county, mostly from California and New York. We speculate that her 'gender identity' bill and the infusion of cash into her campaign are somehow related. Bottom line, she sold out our safety and privacy rights!!!
Here is World Net Daily's story on the incident (click here)
WMAL did news stories about it Wednesday morning (click)
ABC 7 broke the story, and you can replay the video here (click)
And, WMAL's morning talkers, Andy and Grandy, commented that this was an expected result of an embarrassing law. The pair spent some valuable air time discussing the incident.
Note, unfortunately with the exception of Worldnet they all repeated the "distinctly private and personal" misrepresentation... not up on this ? Read the bathrooms page.
"Talk While You Can"
That is the sincere advice a Canadian friend gave to one of our members. He is horrified at watching the vicious prosecution of Canadians under that country's various 'hate speech' laws. Canadians no longer have a legal right to speak out without fear of being prosecuted, fined, or imprisoned. Merely expressing an opinion through a letter to the editor, newspaper ad, personal website, etc. is being criminalized if they offend any member of their protected classes.
One of the most egregious examples is what happened to Stephen Boissoin, a Canadian pastor, who was found guilty last month of inciting hatred for writing a letter to the editor condemning same sex marriage. It seems that two weeks after the letter was published a homosexual was attacked. According to the logic of the Alberta Human Rights Panel his letter to the editor equaled 'hate' speech and 'hate' speech equaled a 'hate' crime by somehow provoking the attack. Hence, writing a letter is the same as committing a violent act.
Our Canadian is warning us from the bottom of his heart: exercise your rights or, sadly, have them stolen from you. Bill 23-07 is more than just about women's bathroom issues, it portends more restrictions on our liberties to associate with whom we choose, to speak our minds, to practice our religion.
If you haven't already, contact your clergy and alert them about this piece of legislation. Ask them if they would agree to have a petition drive after their next service.
Or sit still, do nothing, and watch your religious freedoms disappear.
Tomorrows First Baptist Rockville (55 Adclare Road, Rockville, MD 20850) organizational meeting at Rockville is on, but will only go from 8-9:30. Please come get involved. If you want to pick up petitions or turn petitions in please come before 9:30. We will be out collecting signatures after 9:30.
We still need help this weekend at the petition gathering centers on Saturday and especially on Sunday. I know it is cold, but if you value your religious freedom, please come donate an hour or two.... we have to have 12,500 signatures by February 4... time is running OUT. Please volunteer to help now !
Please reply to this email now with the city you live in...and a time slot that works for you Saturday or Sunday.
Thank you !
Theresa Rickman
Maryland Citizens for a Responsible Government
PS. Sign the petition NOW, and put it in the mail, if you have not done so...
Red Baron said "I guess no one is surprised that gays don't generally tend to reproduce. That's the reason we know that homosexuality is not of a genetic basis. If it were, the gene would quickly disappear.".
False. It may be that several genes contribute to locating men along a gay/hyper-masculine continuum. To illustrate the effect imagine that there are five different genes that play a role in locating a male along this continuum. Each gene has two alleles, one that moves the individual one step towards the feminine side, and one that moves it towards the masculine side. For simplicity, imagine each gene has the same effect. A male becomes gay only if he inherits all 5 gay producing alleles. Computation shows that there is a 1 in 25, or 1/32 chance of this happening. Thus, slightly more than 3% of the males will be gay. Males who inherit fewer than five such alleles are heterosexual. If they inherit any such alleles they benefit from an increase in sensitivity. Ones who inherit none of these alleles are hyper-masculine and lacking in the sensitivity, kindness, empathy, and other traits that make them most attractive to females.
For instance, it is quite possible that some males are already on the feminine side, so an additional dose of femininity is mildly adverse to their reproductive interests, while others are so masculine that there are greater than average benefits from being shifted in the feminine direction.
Males who are too masculine might be ruthless, selfish, insensitive, cruel etc. and this would have negative effects on their reproductive success. Females select for mates carrying more or less of the alleles depending on their own genes. The production of males along the gay/hypermasculine continuum varies between the two extremes with most males falling in the middle.
The whole system survives because it serves to provide a high degree of variability among the personalities of offspring, providing the genotype with diversification, and reducing competition among offspring for the same niches. Because extremes of personality are more advanatageous to males, the variability along the masucline/femininity axis is greater for males. This is reflected in gay males being more common than lesbians.
http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/stalkers/em_homosexuality.html
Red Baron said "What gay sympathizers need to hope is that Christian societies, where the strategy is to convert and redeem gays, predominate. If the Islamic societies, whose strategy is to exterminate gays, were to predominate, you wouldn't like the result. So far, Christian growth outpaces Islamic. Gays and atheists should pray that the trend continues.".
False. Islamic growth outpaces Christian growth and atheists are the fastest growing group of all. As societal wealth and education grow religiosity drops. This is the trend that will likely save the world from both the islamist and Christian religionists.
Theresa said "Canadians no longer have a legal right to speak out without fear of being prosecuted, fined, or imprisoned. Merely expressing an opinion through a letter to the editor, newspaper ad, personal website, etc. is being criminalized if they offend any member of their protected classes....One of the most egregious examples is what happened to Stephen Boissoin, a Canadian pastor, who was found guilty last month of inciting hatred for writing a letter to the editor condemning same sex marriage."
This is of course far from the truth. In the U.S., a person cannot legally yell "fire" in a crowded movie theatre. But they are free to say just about anything else without danger of criminal prosecution. For example, a conservative Christian teleminister in the early 1990s advocated the execution of all Wiccans in the U.S. More recently, a Baptist pastor from Texas advocated that the U.S. army round up Wiccans and burn them alive with napalm. Both clergy were immune from prosecution due to the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment which guarantees almost complete freedom of speech in the country.
Canadians do not have this degree of freedom of speech. Legislation in Canada follows the British tradition, as do laws in Australia and New Zealand and some other former colonies. In particular, citizens are not allowed to incite or promote hatred, advocate genocide or actually commit genocide against certain specified groups.
Bill C-250 was given royal assent by the Queen's representative in Canada on 2004-APR-29. Some propaganda directing hatred against persons of any sexual orientation, heterosexuals, gays and/or bisexuals, is now a crime in Canada. Sexual orientation has now joined four other groups protected against hate speech on the basis of their "color, race, religion or ethnic origin." However, a "not withstanding" type clause allows hate speech if it is religiously motivated. In essence, the law states that the freedom of one person to express religiously-motivated hatred is given higher priority that the freedom of another person to be free of hatred expressed against them.
A person can be convicted under the law if:
If it can be shown that the speech was so abusive that it was likely to incite listeners or readers into violent action against an identifiable group, and if the the speech was made in a public place, then a person could be convicted.
If the speech promoted hatred against an identifiable group, but was not likely to incite a listener to violence, then a person could still be convicted. However there are many safeguards that could give that person immunity. A person could not be convicted if:
- The hate speech was expressed during a private conversation.
- If the person can establish that the statements made are true.
- If, "in good faith, he expressed or attempted to establish by argument an opinion on a religious subject." This would give clergypersons immunity from conviction for a hate-based sermon, for example.
- If the statements were relevant to any subject of public interest, and if, on reasonable grounds, the person believed them to be true. This would give additional protection for the clergy.
- If he described material that might generate feelings of hatred for an identifiable group "for the purpose of removal" of that hatred.
- If the provincial Attorney General refused to give permission. The Attorney General's consent is required before charges can be laid..
Anyone delivering an anti-gay speech based on the famous six "clobber" passages in the Bible or similar passages from the holy texts of other religions is immune from prosecution. This immunity would also apply to lay members of any religion.
Liberal Member of Parliament Derek Lee proposed an amendment to C-250 which was adopted. "It creates a defense from prosecution for opinions expressed 'in good faith' or based on a belief in a religious text" like the Bible. This appears to be a redundant alteration to section 319 of the criminal code. Section 319 already allows immunity from prosecution "if, in good faith, he expressed or attempted to establish by argument an opinion on a religious subject."
It seems ironic that religious institutions are the only groups in the country who want an exemption from hate speech and propaganda laws, apparently so that they can feel free to denigrate groups of individuals without any risk of being charged with a crime.
Boisson didn't just express an opinion about gays, he incited violence against them. He declared war on gays and advocated taking "whatever steps are necessary" to stop the march of equality. He said gays are "perverse, self-centered and morally deprived individuals who are spreading their psychological disease into every area of our lives." and said "Homosexual rights activists and those that defend them, are just as immoral as the pedophiles, drug dealers and pimps that plague our communities...It's time to start taking back what the enemy has taken from you.".
It comes as no surprise that such talk encourages anti-gay religionists to attack gays. Bessoin lied about gays and called for violence against them. You can see the entire Boissoin letter here:
http://www.xtra.ca/public/viewstory.aspx?AFF_TYPE=1&STORY_ID=4014&PUB_TEMPLATE_ID=1
So I was just at my local Giant on Clopper Rd. in Germantown, MD and She was asking for signatures to overturn the equality for transgender individuals (however... their signs don't really state that too clearly).
As far as I could see, there was only one woman there asking for signatures...as I saw the sign for what they were petitioning I said, "As a gay teacher in Montgomery County, you disgust me!!"
The woman just started to ignore after that.
Oh, but that's not the good part; when I spoke to a manager informing him about what these people were doing outside his store, he went out immediately and asked them to leave. When I walked back outside they were packing up their signs, etc.
OH!!! But there is an even better part:
Apparently the CRWs are saying that they are asking for petition signatures for something VERY different. It wasn't said to me for what they told the manager of the store they were asking for signatures...But as I was shopping he later found me in the store and, I quote, "They didn't tell me that THAT was what they were petitioning for. Giant is an equal opportunity business and we would never support what they are doing".
The manager at this Giant was very apologetic to me and informed me that he asked them to leave.
So, once AGAIN, these people are lying to others to trick them into signing a petition. That is just unacceptable.
I guess no one is surprised that gays don't generally tend to reproduce. That's the reason we know that homosexuality is not of a genetic basis. If it were, the gene would quickly disappear.
It might be true that some openly gay people do not reproduce, but what about all those recloseted gays living in "Christian societies, where the strategy is to convert and redeem gays"? Gays who live in the closet because of religious, societal, and internalized homophobia produce plenty of kids, for example, Ted Haggard has 5 kids who received some of his genetic material. The ex-gay industry is responsible for helping maintain gay genetic material in the gene pool.
for some reason some of my last post got cut (I may have made that mistake)...oops!
She refers to a CRW'er. Just thought I would clarify that.
Have an EQUAL weekend.
Thanks Randi and Mr. Teacher Man for the updates.
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Paraphrased from Rev Stephen Boissoin’s letter that Theresa references:
"war has been declared so as to defend the precious sanctity of our innocent children and youth, that you so eagerly toil, day and night, to consume.
The masses have dug in and continue to excuse their failure to stand against horrendous atrocities such as the aggressive propagation of homo- and bisexuality.
every professing heterosexual is have their future aggressively chopped at the roots.
From kindergarten class on, our children, your grandchildren are being strategically targeted, psychologically abused and brainwashed by homosexual and pro-homosexual educators.
Our children are being victimized by repugnant and premeditated strategies, aimed at desensitizing and eventually recruiting our young into their camps.
Your children are being warped into believing that same-sex families are acceptable
Will your child be the next victim that tests homosexuality positive?
Where homosexuality flourishes, all manner of wickedness abounds.
Regardless of what you hear, the militant homosexual agenda isn't rooted in protecting homosexuals from "gay bashing." The agenda is…to gain complete equality in our nation and even worse, our world.
They are perverse, self-centered and morally deprived individuals who are spreading their psychological disease into every area of our lives. Homosexual rights activists and those that defend them, are just as immoral as the pedophiles, drug dealers and pimps that plague our communities.
It is only a matter of time before some of these morally bankrupt individuals such as those involved with NAMBLA, the North American Man/Boy Lovers Association, will achieve their goal to have sexual relations with children
It's time to start taking back what the enemy has taken from you. The safety and future of our children is at stake.
Rev Stephen Boissoin"
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One measly line condemning same-sex FAMILIES in the midst of that torrent of rage and lies, yet Theresa Rickman characterizes the letter like this:
"One of the most egregious examples is what happened to Stephen Boissoin, a Canadian pastor, who was found guilty last month of inciting hatred for writing a letter to the editor condemning same sex marriage."
So she even lies about lies. How embarrassing to defend someone like that, and in the name of Jesus no less. Moral reprobates, they must be completely devoid of any ability to feel shame.
Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.
From Rickman’s email, re Snoopy:
"WMAL did news stories about it Wednesday morning (click)"
"And, WMAL's morning talkers, Andy and Grandy, commented that this was an expected result of an embarrassing law. The pair spent some valuable air time discussing the incident."
--
As Snoopy alluded to, given that the law hasn’t even taken effect yet, how is it even possible to discuss the "result" of it?
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"The health club admits the man is a member."
So Andy and Grandy and Theresa Rickman, KNOWING FULL WELL that this man is a member of the facility, have not yet exposed this person for the male in a dress with heavy makeup that walks into lady’s locker rooms for seemingly no reason at all?
Is this not the very threat they've been warning us of? Yet this clearly identified man, as a member of the health club, is still roaming the streets, despite the known fact that he walked into a lady’s locker room, in a dress and heavy makeup, for no reason at all.
Where is the outrage? According to Citizens for a Responsible Government, this man is a threat to women and children in locker rooms everywhere!
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CRG:
"It puts the safety and privacy of these areas in public accommodations on the line, especially for women and girls.
women and girls will lose their privacy rights and expose themselves to unnecessary danger"
-
If I was a women and children, and I happened to consider Citizens for a Responsible Government to be a credible organization, my first response to this information would be, WHY IN THE FUCK IS HIS NAME AND FACE NOT BEING PLASTERED OVER ALL THE AIRWAVES BY NOW???!!!
According to you people, we're talking about kids lives here!
What kind of "responsible citizens" would keep such information a secret? What kind of a news organization keeps such a threat to the public a secret?
They have "evidence" of potential DANGER, yet so far have done NOTHING to ensure that this man is not a threat to the community.
Have they even contacted the police?
--
Again, this is the CRUX of Citizens for a Responsible Government's argument:
"It puts the safety and privacy of these areas in public accommodations on the line, especially for women and girls.
women and girls will lose their privacy rights and expose themselves to unnecessary danger
--
And now they have real proof of danger to the safety of Montgomery County women and girls, and this is Rickman’s and the CRG’s BIGGEST concern:
"We told them so !
But neither the Council nor the County Executive would listen. We said that women would be faced with men, 'real' transgender or not, entering their most intimate and private spaces if Bill 23-07 were passed. And it happened on Tuesday at a local sports and health club when a man wearing a skirt quickly walked through the women's shower and dressing rooms."
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My take: "We’re right and you’re wrong. There may be a child killer out there, and we may know exactly who that potential child killer is, but first and foremost, and actually only, we’d like to express our disdain for your wrongness in doubting us."
--
Still me:
Citizens for a Responsible Government:
"I’ll tell you where your child has been buried alive, just as soon as you admit that you were wrong."
Yes of course Theresa and Channel 7 News, that’s a lovely sentiment. I NEVER meant to imply otherwise, please believe me, and please don't continue to endanger the lives of Montgomery County Citizens by your continued silence.
Emproph, I agree, for Theresa to characterize Boissoin's letter simply as a letter "condemning same sex marriage" is an outrageous lie. If he had simply condemned same sex marriage there would have been no problem at all. The problem was his declaring war on gays, advocating using "any means possible" to stop gays, and equating gays to pedophiles, drug dealers, and pimps.
I just realized something about this incident at the gym. Follow me here:
1982 - Researcher Paul Cameron tells the audience of the University of Nebraska Lutheran Church that a four-year-old boy was recently castrated due to a sexual attack by a gay man. Cameron told this story as part of an attempt to defeat an anti-discrimination law in Lincoln, NB. Police investigated and discovered the story to be false. But the anti-discrimination law was defeated.
2008 - Citizens for a Responsible Government, is a group putting together a petition against a law that would protect trangender Americans for discrimination. They claim that the law would allow male sexual predators to sneak into women’s lockerrooms and bathrooms. Weeks after their petition drive begins, an incident allegedly happens involving a man dressed as a woman entering the ladies room at a local gym. Gym officials say that they cannot verify whether or not the incident happened. Citizens for a Responsible Government, however, send out a “I told you so” email to its members.
I am not accusing the CRW of being behind the incident per se. But I find the parallel very interesting.
stop spreading lies, BT
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