Sunday Morning Rambling Rumination: Receiving Some Recognition
Last night was really nice. TeachTheFacts.org was honored by the DC-Metro chapter of Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG). Christine and I and our spouses attended the annual gala and the two of us went up to receive the award. It was really fun and cool, it's a great group and the gala is an amazing occasion.
First of all, this is a unique kind of event. PFLAG is pro-family, I mean really, not like the Family Blah Blah groups, PFLAG's whole reason for existence is to help families with gay and transgender members get over the trauma and surprise of somebody coming out, and learn to love one another as they are. It's not always obvious and easy. The DC-Metro chapter is, I think, the biggest one in the country. When they get together, it is the most interesting phenomenon. Everybody's dressed up, but ... everybody is not straight, in fact, there is no expectation at all that anyone will follow any standard convention of sex and gender. Let me say first, there is no outrageousness, no pink feather boas or any of that kind of stuff, no leather jockstraps, come on, it's not that. You have plenty of sharp-looking straight people there, of course, gay couples in tuxes, lesbians in dresses or pantsuits, transwomen in their most beautiful classy dresses or other evening attire, and quite a few interesting people whose gender is not clear, and ... it ... doesn't ... matter. This is a Come As You Really Are party. You start to notice the use of gender pronouns, he and she, or when the waiter says, would you ladies like some wine? Because they might be right, they might be wrong. Nothing is taken for granted, and it is the most comfortable feeling, it's like sitting in front of a fireplace of unconditional acceptance.
I don't know how many people were at the gala, I think there were about 800 last year and this looked about like that. We went up there and they gave us a standing ovation, it was powerful and strange. I mean, normally we are treated quite well by our staff here at TTF World Headquarters, they do rise and applaud when we executives enter the building each morning, but this was especially nice. Maybe it was the tuxes. Bambi, take a memo: to all staff, tuxes from now on.
This tends to be a thankless gig. We get email, we talk to people on the phone, mainly we just move information around; we find out about something and I write a little something or we decide to do something. We have our friends, people who didn't know each other just a few years ago, and everybody has their specialty. We have people who are natural organizers and fundraisers and strategists, people with political connections and people with good new ideas, a couple of people who make great jokes, that's their specialty and their contribution, TTF is just some people. We're not very well organized, you might say, in fact I don't remember the last time we met. Actually, I do, but let's just say meetings are a formality we endure, it's not how we get things done. We are just some people who decided it was necessary to stop something ugly, we're not professional activists or anything, we just got fed up. We don't do it to win awards and there's sure no money in it, but it was really nice to go up there and see a room full of people standing up, clapping, appreciating us. Unbelievable feeling.
We channel the scuttlebutt. That's all we do.
You'd be amazed to see how the information goes around. Somebody learns something, sends it to somebody with a question, gets a kind of answer that raises another question. Somebody speculates about it, we ask somebody who'd know, they tell us something that makes us question the original fact. At every step, somebody adds an opinion or a perspective, points out an angle that the rest of us missed, and in the end it comes out on the blog or in a talk somewhere, or a phone call to an official or something. It's chaotic, it's crazy, it's fun most of the time, and in the end it works. We catch the other side in their lies, we reveal their faulty logic, we find out their motives and their connections, we drag the truth out into the sunlight.
I couldn't tell you how many people came up during the evening and thanked us for what we do. Strangers came over to talk about the blog, is that weird or what? I heard stories at the gala, people like to talk, they talked about coming out, about how they got to where they are now, and they thanked us. Oh, and we got to meet some of the people who comment here, that was great.
Speaking for myself, I never imagined I would be anything like a "gay activist." I have never had any interest in gay and transgender issues. Like a lot of people, I was halfway annoyed that they were always squawking about respect and rights and stuff. My feeling was, who cares if you're gay? Actually, that's still my feeling, and I think it's the correct feeling to have about this. I'm married, I'm not looking for somebody to go out with, if I talk to somebody why should it matter to me what kind of person they prefer to date? Why would I care if their vagina was there when they were born, or created later? Or whether they have one or not? I just can't think of any way it affects me.
I was annoyed about their struggle for respect because I happened to be a person who didn't have a problem with it. But in the last three and a half years I have learned that there are people who have a serious problem with it. There are people who simply resent them for who they are and do everything to make their lives difficult. There are people who theorize that gay people are trying to take over the world, who believe that gay and transgender people are all a bunch of predators and pedophiles who want to molest our kids. And that's where the problem is, I'm not concerned about GLBT issues, I'm concerned with anti-GLBT issues. I'm fed up with ignorant straight bigots who will say anything to insult a human being who is different from them.
I'll go a step further. I'm fine with ignorant straight bigots, as long as they keep it to themselves. I know you can go to a lot of backyard barbecues and hear stuff about the faggots and the niggers and everything else. I don't like that, in fact you probably won't find me at those particular barbecues, but I'm not on any crusade to change the way people talk among themselves. We have taken on two public issues here. One was when the ignorant straight bigots demanded that the public schools teach a lot of nonsense, when they made a big stink because the schools were going to teach about sexual orientation. That's going too far, that's beyond the barbecue, that backyard talk is something you can't do anything about but it doesn't belong in our schools. The other thing, right now, is when the ignorant straight bigots want to re-legalize discrimination against transgender people. And there, I'll tell you, I don't have an opinion about gender identity or about nondiscrimination laws, maybe it's a good idea and maybe it isn't. But the community needs to have a real discussion about it, I won't live in a place where people decide those things on the basis of chicken-little slogans about perverted men in the ladies room. We elected a County Council, they debated and studied the issue, they came up with some wording and adopted it unanimously, the County Executive signed it. That's how it works in America. The shower-nuts have the legal opportunity to call for a referendum, but the way they have done it is so underhanded that it embarrasses the whole county. We heard them out there, telling people the new law allows pedophiles and predators into the ladies room, sign here to protect our children. They can't win on the actual issues, they have to lie about it.
I was talking to somebody recently about this. They said, do you know how the law will affect the possibility of a transitioning transgender person exposing themselves in the ladies room? And I said, do you know how often that is going to happen? Do you know how many people there are in this county who have begun presenting themselves as women but have not had the surgery, and would go into a locker-room and expose their genitals? I'll answer your question: zero. That never happens, it won't happen. It is ridulous to stop everything and make everybody focus on one tiny possibility, when there are real issues every day where transgender people lose their jobs, can't get served, when they need to pee and have to go home to do it because somebody won't let them use the public restroom. And I imagine that exposing a penis in the ladies locker-room will be a violation of the indecent exposure law, no matter what the person calls themselves, this comes down to a jury and I imagine a jury would convict on that.
Think about it. As I understand them, the CRWhatever's concern is that not only will a transitioning transgender person use the ladies locker-room, but that person will also be a sexual predator or pedophile. For that reason, they want everybody in the county to vote to take back the new law that gives some rights to a vulnerable minority.
We shouldn't be on the defensive to explain whether something is possible or not, that is exactly the backwards approach to living. Imagine if somebody started saying that people with martial arts training should not be allowed on airplanes, because they could hijack it with karate-chops and stuff. Think about it, it is possible, somebody took taekwondo as a kid, they could kick open the cabin door and take over, karate-chop the pilot. This is like that, a campaign to make you prove you've never studied martial arts before you get on a plane, a campaign based on a possibility that will never happen. Transitioning transgender people aren't going to expose their genitals in a locker room, they have too much to lose, it's too big a deal to them, it hasn't happened and it won't happen. You can't make laws against every possibly unpleasant thing that could ever happen. The fact is, these people don't like the fact that gender identity was added to the nondiscrimination law, they want discrimination, and this is the only thing they could think of to get people to vote with them.
And we're against that kind of stupid thinking. America is paralyzed with fear already, it's time to lighten up and live.
It's a gorgeous morning out there, cold but sunny. Yesterday there were spectacular violent storms, and today there are branches all over my yard -- there was a trash can wedged under the axle of my car this morning. We had ice on the deck last night when we came home. I'm going to be busy for a few weeks. I agreed to write a paper for a journal and, one thing after the other, deadline shifted, they didn't find a publisher, I blew it off, but now they want a major paper by the end of the month, so I'm going to have to dig in to that. I think I will also have to give a talk at a conference this week, and I haven't even thought about it yet, something about computer security. Meanwhile, somebody just forwarded me an email about the shower-nuts' latest adventure, now they want to go through the petition signatures, too, I suppose I'll have to look into that. Time for another cup of coffee.
First of all, this is a unique kind of event. PFLAG is pro-family, I mean really, not like the Family Blah Blah groups, PFLAG's whole reason for existence is to help families with gay and transgender members get over the trauma and surprise of somebody coming out, and learn to love one another as they are. It's not always obvious and easy. The DC-Metro chapter is, I think, the biggest one in the country. When they get together, it is the most interesting phenomenon. Everybody's dressed up, but ... everybody is not straight, in fact, there is no expectation at all that anyone will follow any standard convention of sex and gender. Let me say first, there is no outrageousness, no pink feather boas or any of that kind of stuff, no leather jockstraps, come on, it's not that. You have plenty of sharp-looking straight people there, of course, gay couples in tuxes, lesbians in dresses or pantsuits, transwomen in their most beautiful classy dresses or other evening attire, and quite a few interesting people whose gender is not clear, and ... it ... doesn't ... matter. This is a Come As You Really Are party. You start to notice the use of gender pronouns, he and she, or when the waiter says, would you ladies like some wine? Because they might be right, they might be wrong. Nothing is taken for granted, and it is the most comfortable feeling, it's like sitting in front of a fireplace of unconditional acceptance.
I don't know how many people were at the gala, I think there were about 800 last year and this looked about like that. We went up there and they gave us a standing ovation, it was powerful and strange. I mean, normally we are treated quite well by our staff here at TTF World Headquarters, they do rise and applaud when we executives enter the building each morning, but this was especially nice. Maybe it was the tuxes. Bambi, take a memo: to all staff, tuxes from now on.
This tends to be a thankless gig. We get email, we talk to people on the phone, mainly we just move information around; we find out about something and I write a little something or we decide to do something. We have our friends, people who didn't know each other just a few years ago, and everybody has their specialty. We have people who are natural organizers and fundraisers and strategists, people with political connections and people with good new ideas, a couple of people who make great jokes, that's their specialty and their contribution, TTF is just some people. We're not very well organized, you might say, in fact I don't remember the last time we met. Actually, I do, but let's just say meetings are a formality we endure, it's not how we get things done. We are just some people who decided it was necessary to stop something ugly, we're not professional activists or anything, we just got fed up. We don't do it to win awards and there's sure no money in it, but it was really nice to go up there and see a room full of people standing up, clapping, appreciating us. Unbelievable feeling.
We channel the scuttlebutt. That's all we do.
You'd be amazed to see how the information goes around. Somebody learns something, sends it to somebody with a question, gets a kind of answer that raises another question. Somebody speculates about it, we ask somebody who'd know, they tell us something that makes us question the original fact. At every step, somebody adds an opinion or a perspective, points out an angle that the rest of us missed, and in the end it comes out on the blog or in a talk somewhere, or a phone call to an official or something. It's chaotic, it's crazy, it's fun most of the time, and in the end it works. We catch the other side in their lies, we reveal their faulty logic, we find out their motives and their connections, we drag the truth out into the sunlight.
I couldn't tell you how many people came up during the evening and thanked us for what we do. Strangers came over to talk about the blog, is that weird or what? I heard stories at the gala, people like to talk, they talked about coming out, about how they got to where they are now, and they thanked us. Oh, and we got to meet some of the people who comment here, that was great.
Speaking for myself, I never imagined I would be anything like a "gay activist." I have never had any interest in gay and transgender issues. Like a lot of people, I was halfway annoyed that they were always squawking about respect and rights and stuff. My feeling was, who cares if you're gay? Actually, that's still my feeling, and I think it's the correct feeling to have about this. I'm married, I'm not looking for somebody to go out with, if I talk to somebody why should it matter to me what kind of person they prefer to date? Why would I care if their vagina was there when they were born, or created later? Or whether they have one or not? I just can't think of any way it affects me.
I was annoyed about their struggle for respect because I happened to be a person who didn't have a problem with it. But in the last three and a half years I have learned that there are people who have a serious problem with it. There are people who simply resent them for who they are and do everything to make their lives difficult. There are people who theorize that gay people are trying to take over the world, who believe that gay and transgender people are all a bunch of predators and pedophiles who want to molest our kids. And that's where the problem is, I'm not concerned about GLBT issues, I'm concerned with anti-GLBT issues. I'm fed up with ignorant straight bigots who will say anything to insult a human being who is different from them.
I'll go a step further. I'm fine with ignorant straight bigots, as long as they keep it to themselves. I know you can go to a lot of backyard barbecues and hear stuff about the faggots and the niggers and everything else. I don't like that, in fact you probably won't find me at those particular barbecues, but I'm not on any crusade to change the way people talk among themselves. We have taken on two public issues here. One was when the ignorant straight bigots demanded that the public schools teach a lot of nonsense, when they made a big stink because the schools were going to teach about sexual orientation. That's going too far, that's beyond the barbecue, that backyard talk is something you can't do anything about but it doesn't belong in our schools. The other thing, right now, is when the ignorant straight bigots want to re-legalize discrimination against transgender people. And there, I'll tell you, I don't have an opinion about gender identity or about nondiscrimination laws, maybe it's a good idea and maybe it isn't. But the community needs to have a real discussion about it, I won't live in a place where people decide those things on the basis of chicken-little slogans about perverted men in the ladies room. We elected a County Council, they debated and studied the issue, they came up with some wording and adopted it unanimously, the County Executive signed it. That's how it works in America. The shower-nuts have the legal opportunity to call for a referendum, but the way they have done it is so underhanded that it embarrasses the whole county. We heard them out there, telling people the new law allows pedophiles and predators into the ladies room, sign here to protect our children. They can't win on the actual issues, they have to lie about it.
I was talking to somebody recently about this. They said, do you know how the law will affect the possibility of a transitioning transgender person exposing themselves in the ladies room? And I said, do you know how often that is going to happen? Do you know how many people there are in this county who have begun presenting themselves as women but have not had the surgery, and would go into a locker-room and expose their genitals? I'll answer your question: zero. That never happens, it won't happen. It is ridulous to stop everything and make everybody focus on one tiny possibility, when there are real issues every day where transgender people lose their jobs, can't get served, when they need to pee and have to go home to do it because somebody won't let them use the public restroom. And I imagine that exposing a penis in the ladies locker-room will be a violation of the indecent exposure law, no matter what the person calls themselves, this comes down to a jury and I imagine a jury would convict on that.
Think about it. As I understand them, the CRWhatever's concern is that not only will a transitioning transgender person use the ladies locker-room, but that person will also be a sexual predator or pedophile. For that reason, they want everybody in the county to vote to take back the new law that gives some rights to a vulnerable minority.
We shouldn't be on the defensive to explain whether something is possible or not, that is exactly the backwards approach to living. Imagine if somebody started saying that people with martial arts training should not be allowed on airplanes, because they could hijack it with karate-chops and stuff. Think about it, it is possible, somebody took taekwondo as a kid, they could kick open the cabin door and take over, karate-chop the pilot. This is like that, a campaign to make you prove you've never studied martial arts before you get on a plane, a campaign based on a possibility that will never happen. Transitioning transgender people aren't going to expose their genitals in a locker room, they have too much to lose, it's too big a deal to them, it hasn't happened and it won't happen. You can't make laws against every possibly unpleasant thing that could ever happen. The fact is, these people don't like the fact that gender identity was added to the nondiscrimination law, they want discrimination, and this is the only thing they could think of to get people to vote with them.
And we're against that kind of stupid thinking. America is paralyzed with fear already, it's time to lighten up and live.
It's a gorgeous morning out there, cold but sunny. Yesterday there were spectacular violent storms, and today there are branches all over my yard -- there was a trash can wedged under the axle of my car this morning. We had ice on the deck last night when we came home. I'm going to be busy for a few weeks. I agreed to write a paper for a journal and, one thing after the other, deadline shifted, they didn't find a publisher, I blew it off, but now they want a major paper by the end of the month, so I'm going to have to dig in to that. I think I will also have to give a talk at a conference this week, and I haven't even thought about it yet, something about computer security. Meanwhile, somebody just forwarded me an email about the shower-nuts' latest adventure, now they want to go through the petition signatures, too, I suppose I'll have to look into that. Time for another cup of coffee.
posted by JimK at 11:31 AM
21 Comments:
Congratulations Jim, Chris, and the rest of the TTF staff whom I’ve never had the pleasure of meeting. It would have been nice if I had been there to stand and applaud for you last night when you got the award, but unfortunately taxes and a miserable cold conspired to keep me home and miserable. Have no doubt though that even though I may disagree with your use of some terms (including “showernuts”), I applaud your efforts on building a community based on reason and tolerance.
Peace,
Cynthia
Yes, you indeed deserved the standing ovation you received. Bravo!
Chris, you were most articulate!
Thanks Dana! I held the bowl beautifully, didn't I?
GO TTF! We teachers in Montgomery County are happy to have people like you who truly care about our students promoting tolerance and truth.
Thank you.
Andrea- not anon
So sorry not to have seen this in person- although I just ran into Chrisand offered in person congrats. I had to be in the TTF underground bunker last night re calibrating the TTF spy satellite system due to the time change last night.
Did we get millions of dollars as a prize?- because the satellite system needs some work- or we may have to have the navy shoot some of them down for us.
Jim:
Beyond a doubt, you and Chris, in representing yourselves and the Teach the Facts orgaization, deserve ALL of the recognition and appreciation you received last night at the PFLAG Dinner.
As an older retired gay teacher, I grew up in a society that characterized GLBT people as criminals, social outcasts, mentally ill, Communists (!), and sinful people. At the time I started teaching here in Montgomery County, I could have been fired on the spot, without even one iota of legal recourse - not for what I might have done or even perceived as having done, but simply because of who I am. My long years of hiding who I truly am without a doubt took a great toll on my life.
That is analogous to the current situation that our county's transgender community is dealing with here in Montgomery County, 40years later...discrimination because of who they are. And furthermore, they are still, as a minority group, being denied the same rights and protections that every other citizen in this county is afforded.
While such injustice and ignorance in 2008 gives me a very heavy heart, I still have to believe that the huge majority of Montgomery County's citizens, along with all Americans, want justice, equality, respect, and, recognition of the inherent value of all of our residents.
Looking back at all the years that have passed since pre-Stonewall days, I and every other GLBT person in this country have witnessed great progress and the growing acceptance of us - because non-GLBT groups like Teach the Facts have done so much to challenge and dispel the fear, hatred, bigotry, and "religious" judgement of people who seemingly like to spend all of their waking hours wallowing in the morass of their own hatred.
The battle continues, but because of people such as you who simply believe in the American value of fairness for everybody, the battle WILL be won!
I am gratified and in great admiration of your own growth and acceptance...which have led you to be at the forefront of the battle against ignorance, fear, and hatred. I do not and cannot speak for the entire GLBT community, but from my own heart I thank you for your moral integrity,courage, and leadership. That is precisely why PFLAG chose to recognize your work last night.
R.A.P.
Imagine there's no gender. It's easy if you try.
Here's some classic anti-gender lunacy:
"You have plenty of sharp-looking straight people there, of course, gay couples in tuxes, lesbians in dresses or pantsuits, transwomen in their most beautiful classy dresses or other evening attire, and quite a few interesting people whose gender is not clear, and ... it ... doesn't ... matter. This is a Come As You Really Are party. You start to notice the use of gender pronouns, he and she, or when the waiter says, would you ladies like some wine? Because they might be right, they might be wrong. Nothing is taken for granted, and it is the most comfortable feeling, it's like sitting in front of a fireplace of unconditional acceptance."
Anonymous said...
"anti-gender"
---
RT: "Would you please be so kind as to explain what your new phrase "anti-gender" means?"
ANON: Yes, it means opposed to the idea of commitment to one's God-given gender.
---
So basically you're arguing that my genitals, are part of your religion?
There are a number of people that believe that when God created man and woman he placed their gender in their genitalia. Given the propensity of a number of men to behave, well, like a phallus, this may certainly be true for them. However, this doesn’t explain why Lance Armstrong is still wearing yellow shirts instead of yellow skirts.
I personally believe that gender resides in a very small portion of the brain near the amygdala. I know this belief is quite contrary to the opinion of millions of well-meaning people who think they are superior to me. It took me a number of years and a not-so-small fortune to convince doctors I would be better off without the “dangly bits.” All of this effort of course, was based on my “belief.”
The proof that my “belief” holds some validity is the fact that I am a far kinder, happier, more productive, friendlier, more generous, more empathetic, and just plain more fun to be around. Oh, and I no longer go searching my house at 3am wondering where I hid the bullets so I can just end my miserable life.
You may believe that I am still a man, or a total fruit loop. That’s fine. You are entitled to your beliefs, just as I am. Beliefs are easy to come by. Pick something you like and just stick with it. If you want to have some credibility for your beliefs though, do something productive with it, like Mother Theresa, Desmond Tutu, Jimmy Carter, Nelson Mandela, or Martin Luther King.
Peace,
Cynthia
Or Deepak Chopra. He get's it too.
Anonymous (Theresa, et al.):
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
HHhhhhhmmmmmmm - do you believe that? or in your ignorance and hatred, have you forgotten that cornerstone of you often-forgotten faith of convenience? It's a pretty simple, yet quite powerful, directive. Imagine how much better our community would be if you would just practice it!
Beliefs are easy to come by.
True; however, the significant difference between Cynthia's and the genital worshippers' "beliefs" is that Cynthia's belief is supported by data and mainstream medicine.
Otherwise, there would be no medical protocol for people to transition to their actual gender.
It was lovely seeing you folks Saturday night, and again, a well-deserved congratulations.
Sorry Anon, but just like a lot of other things, you don't know your lyrics. Here ya go:
Imagine, by John Lennon
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
"the significant difference between Cynthia's and the genital worshippers' "beliefs" is that Cynthia's belief is supported by data and mainstream medicine"
No, it's not. The idea that one can be a different gender than one's biological construction indicates is in a realm beyond the physical and, thus, not verifiable by science.
You all seem fond of talking about genitals but the key characteristic is chromosomal. And, yes, they are abnormalities, and they are a gray area but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about XY guys who believe they are women. They can believe what they want, but don't claim scientific validation.
You can say it all you want, Wyatt, but you would be laughed off any scientific panel and out of many courtrooms today as well. This is the kind of nonsense your side has promulgated regarding evolution, and you were humiliated in court in Dover as well as the court of educated public opinion.
That you think that it is as simple as having an X and a Y chromosome simply highlights your ignorance for all but the most narrow-minded and fearful of Americans. Are most people ignorant of these issues? Yes, because they don't learn about them in school because of the bigotry of people like you. It's all of the same cloth -- you pose as a scientist, as if you have a clue about human sexuality, and use that cloth of ignorance to cloak your true agenda, which is and always has been a religious one about "God-given genitals."
So now it's just about chromosomes. Where've you been all these years, buddy?
Wyatt (if that is your name), Dana has explained to you and your friends over and over again that the state of being that upsets you so is in fact a biological state. People who transition to their actual gender from the gender they were assigned at birth - incorrectly, but that's nobody's fault - do so because of a variant prenatal development in brain structure.
Take your fingers out of your ears and stop chanting "no" for a moment so that you can hear her, and then you won't have to keep making the same uninformed statement.
Anonymous said...
The idea that one can be a different gender than one's biological construction indicates is in a realm beyond the physical and, thus, not verifiable by science.
--
And yet you claim the right to religious exemption, which is also "in a realm beyond the physical and, thus, not verifiable by science."
--
So in essence, you're claiming that your invisible beliefs, not verifiable by science, trump the invisible beliefs of others, simply because they are yours?
What then, anonymous, makes you personally, an authority on the veracity of invisible beliefs?
Anonymous said…
"And, yes, they are abnormalities, and they are a gray area but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about XY guys who believe they are women."
Actually anon, we’re talking about gender identity. You’ve defined this as not only chromosomal (above), but you’ve also defined gender as "God given." (March 08, 2008 11:25 AM)
So if gender is chromosomal and God given…
What is intersex?
"“Intersex” is a general term used for a variety of conditions in which a person is born with a reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn’t seem to fit the typical definitions of female or male. For example, a person might be born appearing to be female on the outside, but having mostly male-typical anatomy on the inside. Or a person may be born with genitals that seem to be in-between the usual male and female types—for example, a girl may be born with a noticeably large clitoris, or lacking a vaginal opening, or a boy may be born with a notably small penis, or with a scrotum that is divided so that it has formed more like labia. Or a person may be born with mosaic genetics, so that some of her cells have XX chromosomes and some of them have XY.
Though we speak of intersex as an inborn condition, intersex anatomy doesn’t always show up at birth. Sometimes a person isn’t found to have intersex anatomy until she or he reaches the age of puberty, or finds himself an infertile adult, or dies of old age and is autopsied. Some people live and die with intersex anatomy without anyone (including themselves) ever knowing."
--
Beyond those who are transgendered, those who are intersexed, and perfectly verified by science, are also covered by this law.
What is your solution for them anon?
And Theresa, I think it prudent that you weigh in on this as well (at some point at least) -- and no, majority rules is NOT an acceptable argument.
"Dana has explained to you and your friends over and over again that the state of being that upsets you so is in fact a biological state."
Actually, David, regardless of what happens, I'm not that upset.
"People who transition to their actual gender from the gender they were assigned at birth - incorrectly, but that's nobody's fault - do so because of a variant prenatal development in brain structure."
You know, someone recently, might have been Cynthia claimed to have a study that showed 100% correlation between a brain structure and transgenderism. Anybody know what they were talking about.
As far as I know there has been a study showing some slight increase in correlation between some brain structure and gaeity but even that was not replicable.
Dana has previously posted a study showing that attempts to alter a person's gender to differentiate from their chromosomal composition were unsuccessful.
"As far as I know there has been a study showing some slight increase in correlation between some brain structure and gaeity but even that was not replicable."
Except that your "religious" beliefs are not contingent upon scientific studies, no matter how compelling.
So the question is, why are you arguing against something that wouldn’t convince you anyway?
If you admitted as much, at least I could respect your position.
No doubt I'd mock it, as I do, but I wouldn't hold you as the hypocrite that you currently are.
Religion aside, why are you lying about what I've produced here?
I'm a scientist, and I know that in science and medicine there is rarely 100% confidence on anything. That's life -- literally.
With regards to trans women and the brain, there was a neuropath study done in 1995 and followed up in the decade since that did show a 100% correlation between certain sexually dimorphic brain structures and gender identity. There are now radioimaging studies that are showing similar results, but the technological resolution is new and we're waiting for more data.
That being said, the data on the treatment of neurologically intersex conditions such as transsexualism has been flooding in since the 1960's and the treatment is remarkably successful, in the 98-99% range for both trans men and women. That's as close to perfect as you can get in medicine.
As an example to how religious extremists trained in medicine can eventually see the light, Paul McHugh, your poster boy for intolerance, admitted his error in laughing at the concept of brain sex and gender identity when his colleague Bill Reiner published his paper in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2004.
McHugh thought the concept was nonsense, believing that somehow staring at your penis made you a man. Reiner presented a large group of boys born without penises -- without any perineum, for that matter -- who were often surgically reassigned as girls but who always knew they were boys. They knew this because they had undescended testes that had secreted testosterone so that their brains had developed male structures, in spite of the fact that they had no male genitalia.
Of course, Theresa would want them forced to use the women's bathroom, because they don't have penises. And you would want all the women with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome to use the men's room because they have a Y chromosome. I'm amazed as to how your brains just shut down when presented with facts. But you know that trans women are pedophiles, so off you go. Theresa has said to us that she just doesn't want to think about our existence, and she can't even think about the facts when they stare her in the face. Pretty sad for an engineer.
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