House Committee Hears About Transgender Issues
Yesterday the House of Representatives Subcommittee on Health, Employment, Labor, and Pensions held a hearing on the topic of Discrimination Against Transgender Americans in the Workplace, working toward adoption of a federal Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA) that is inclusive of transgender as well as gay, lesbian, and bisexual people. Some of our friends went to it, it sounds like it was really an inspiring hearing and we hope that good things come out of it. This was the first Congressional hearing ever on the subject of transgender rights.
Some members of Congress testified first. Barney Frank, who is openly gay, said he "lived a lie for a long time" and now is sorry for it. He said people might be uncomfortable around transgender people at first. He got a laugh when he added, "When I discovered I was gay, it made me uncomfortable." But he got used to it, and so did other people.
Frank made the important point that giving equal rights to transgender people doesn't mean you have to take them to dinner or go to the movies with them, you judge them by how they do their job. The proposed nondiscrimination act does not give anyone the right to misbehave or be bizarre; this is simply how a compassionate society responds.
Rep. Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisc) said that workplace protection is necessary for transgender people so we do not "leave behind the smallest and most vulnerable part of our community." Setting the stage, she defined gender identity and discussed how it differs from sexual orientation. She described everyday discrimination that transgender people face, and said "the importance of non-discrimination laws cannot be overstated." These laws tell people to "judge your fellow citizen by their integrity, talents ... rather than their sexual orientation or gender identity ... that irrational fear, irrational hate, have no place in our workplaces."
Chairman Robert Andrews (D-NJ) called Col. Diane Schroer to address the committee. As a man named David, Schroer went into the Army in 1978, went to Ranger and Airborne school, was in the Special Forces, made 450 parachute jumps, and served in Panama, Haiti, the Middle East, and other places, retiring in 2004. He had top secret security clearance at the Department of Homeland Security, and in 2004 applied for a job at the Library of Congress and was hired. David then had a meeting with the supervisor who had hired him, and told her of his plans to transition to a female gender identity and start work at the Library as Diane. The next day the supervisor called him and said "You're just not a good fit" for the job. As she said, she went from "Hero to zero" in twenty-four hours.
Next Mr. Andrews called Diego Sanchez, who is Director of Public Relations and External Affairs for AIDS Action Committee of Massachusetts and is a founding board member of the National Center for Transgender Equality (NCTE). Born female, Sanchez told his parents at the age of five, "I'm a boy." He says his mother let him read a book about Christine Jorgensen, who was the first widely known transgender personality, having made a male-to-female transition in the early 1950s. He says his parents supported him through his childhood, and that he had about the same number of tutus and Tonka trucks.
Next called was JC Miller, a partner at Thompson Hine. She made legal recommendations to the committee, such as:
Bill Hendrix, Chair of Gays, Lesbians, and Allies at Dow (GLAD) for Dow Chemical Company testified that Dow has had a transgender nondiscrimination policy for nineteen years. With 43,000 employees, they have had no problems resulting from their inclusive policies. Retaining LGBT employees, he said, has been good for espirit de corps in general. Dow has training for all employees each year in relevant topics, for instance sex education, same-sex domestic partnerships, and gay and lesbian issues.
Next up was Glen Lavy, Senior Counsel for Alliance Defense Fund, the same law firm that petitioned to represent the Citizens for Responsible Whatever here in Montgomery County in fighting our new nondiscrimination law. He said that some employers have deeply held religious beliefs that forbid them hiring transgender people. Forcing them to do so would amount to a moral judgment, he said. He complained about the difficulty of such concepts as "actual" versus "perceived" gender identity, and argued that because of its subjective nature, gender identity is unlike race. He also complained that the proposed law makes no religious exemption, and that employers should be able to refuse if compliance is too expensive. There is also, he said, a risk of violation of privacy. Lavy went on about that terrible "restroom" issue that so worries them, complaining about the problem of "men who are are allowed to use womens restrooms before having gender reassignment surgery." I think the technical term for these men would be "women," not to put too subtle a spin on it.
Lavy argued that if this law passed, a woman could complain and sue her employer because her privacy had been violated by a transgender woman seeing her naked in a bathroom or by seeing a naked transwoman in the bathroom. He was saying this invasion of privacy would be an unfair financial burden on the employer because they would have to defend against such lawsuits.
Lavy told the committee about our situation in Montgomery County, and asserted that the biggest question here is who goes into what bathroom. It is interesting that the shower-nuts have the nerve to go to this level of visibility with this lame argument. In fact, the biggest question in Montgomery County is discrimination. There is nothing in our new law about bathrooms, and doesn't need to be.
I am quoting from somebody's notes here, and am suppressing most of the ironic and other satirical comments that I am thinking as I type this.
Sabrina Marcus Taraboletti, Former Space Shuttle Engineer (and founding member of NCTE) testified next. She is the parent of two children, was raised in a strict Italian Catholic family, has an engineering degree and worked on the space shuttle, worked for United Space Alliance (a company owned jointly by Lockheed Martin and Boeing which manages the NASA space shuttle and International Space Station), and in 2003 was fired six weeks after announcing that she was going to transition from male to female. She was, she says, the fourth person there to transition; the first one was harassed until they left, the second one was reassigned to a dead-end job and quit, and the third one was harassed until they committed suicide. Taraboletti was finally fired.
Shannon Minter, Legal Director for National Center for Lesbian Rights and a transgender man, was the last witness. He argued we "need more than a patchwork of state and local laws and policies." He described numerous cases of individuals who lost their jobs simply because they were transgender. Twelve states and the District of Columbia, plus 100 localities and many employers do offer protection to transgender people, but "the brutal reality" is that transgender people are abused by employers. They are not protected by Title 7, and need legislation to protect them
After the testimony, Mr. Andrews, the chair of the committee, noted that the ADF's attorney, Mr. Lavy, seemed to think that accommodating a transgender person was like "making an Orthodox Jew eat pork." The Chairman wanted to know if Mr. Lavy believed an Orthodox Jew could refuse to employ a Catholic. Lavy said no. Then he asked about pacifists -- could a pacifist group refuse to hire a Marine veteran? Lavy did think they should be able to refuse. So Andrews asked, what about a white supremacist group? Should they be able to refuse to hire a person of color? Now Lavy said no. Those on the scene tell me that the crowd was not cheering for Mr. Lavy at this point, you might say. In fact laughter broke out a couple of times.
There was some discussion of the term "perceived," compared to "regarded as," in describing a person's gender identity. "Regarded as" refers to the overt conduct of the manager in how they relate to the person; "perceived as" can be totally internal, subjective, not overt.
There was a goose-bumpy moment when Rep. Phil Hare (D-Ill) told Mr. Lavy about a man who lived a couple of thousand years ago who hung around with people nobody liked. He concluded by noting that there is a moral obligation to protect others, that we're all equal, and that "we can legislate what is right, what is just and what is fair."
A great line from Rep. Hare: "We put people in space, we can figure out the bathrooms."
The hearing ended with the transgender witnesses describing what they do to make a living. Most of them have had a hard time since their transition.
This was a historic event. The transgender population has never been invited to testify before any Congressional body before. We hope that something will come of this, in particular the goal would be for ENDA to be revised to include gender identity as well as sexual orientation. At the end of the hearing, Mr. Andrews noted that the day before, debate had resulted in a vote to change the Americans With Disabilities Act, and he seemed confident that ENDA would be going the same direction. He noted that the hearing was an important step for all people, not only transgender, but other groups who suffer from being unpopular as well.
Some members of Congress testified first. Barney Frank, who is openly gay, said he "lived a lie for a long time" and now is sorry for it. He said people might be uncomfortable around transgender people at first. He got a laugh when he added, "When I discovered I was gay, it made me uncomfortable." But he got used to it, and so did other people.
Frank made the important point that giving equal rights to transgender people doesn't mean you have to take them to dinner or go to the movies with them, you judge them by how they do their job. The proposed nondiscrimination act does not give anyone the right to misbehave or be bizarre; this is simply how a compassionate society responds.
Rep. Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisc) said that workplace protection is necessary for transgender people so we do not "leave behind the smallest and most vulnerable part of our community." Setting the stage, she defined gender identity and discussed how it differs from sexual orientation. She described everyday discrimination that transgender people face, and said "the importance of non-discrimination laws cannot be overstated." These laws tell people to "judge your fellow citizen by their integrity, talents ... rather than their sexual orientation or gender identity ... that irrational fear, irrational hate, have no place in our workplaces."
Chairman Robert Andrews (D-NJ) called Col. Diane Schroer to address the committee. As a man named David, Schroer went into the Army in 1978, went to Ranger and Airborne school, was in the Special Forces, made 450 parachute jumps, and served in Panama, Haiti, the Middle East, and other places, retiring in 2004. He had top secret security clearance at the Department of Homeland Security, and in 2004 applied for a job at the Library of Congress and was hired. David then had a meeting with the supervisor who had hired him, and told her of his plans to transition to a female gender identity and start work at the Library as Diane. The next day the supervisor called him and said "You're just not a good fit" for the job. As she said, she went from "Hero to zero" in twenty-four hours.
Next Mr. Andrews called Diego Sanchez, who is Director of Public Relations and External Affairs for AIDS Action Committee of Massachusetts and is a founding board member of the National Center for Transgender Equality (NCTE). Born female, Sanchez told his parents at the age of five, "I'm a boy." He says his mother let him read a book about Christine Jorgensen, who was the first widely known transgender personality, having made a male-to-female transition in the early 1950s. He says his parents supported him through his childhood, and that he had about the same number of tutus and Tonka trucks.
Next called was JC Miller, a partner at Thompson Hine. She made legal recommendations to the committee, such as:
- Have a clear definition of "gender identity," "transgender," and other key words, and avoid unclear terms such as "mannerism;" she noted that a firm handshake may be considered a masculine mannerism
- She recommended using the word "restroom" to be clear, and not something vague like "facilities"
- Notification: the law should specify what an employee should do when they are transitioning, when they should notify the employer, etc. -- this should all be spelled out
- Jurisdiction: federal courts handle discrimination cases better than state courts
- Costs: legal fees, she said, heap up for employers, who are sued when discrimination is alleged; this needs to be addressed in the law
Bill Hendrix, Chair of Gays, Lesbians, and Allies at Dow (GLAD) for Dow Chemical Company testified that Dow has had a transgender nondiscrimination policy for nineteen years. With 43,000 employees, they have had no problems resulting from their inclusive policies. Retaining LGBT employees, he said, has been good for espirit de corps in general. Dow has training for all employees each year in relevant topics, for instance sex education, same-sex domestic partnerships, and gay and lesbian issues.
Next up was Glen Lavy, Senior Counsel for Alliance Defense Fund, the same law firm that petitioned to represent the Citizens for Responsible Whatever here in Montgomery County in fighting our new nondiscrimination law. He said that some employers have deeply held religious beliefs that forbid them hiring transgender people. Forcing them to do so would amount to a moral judgment, he said. He complained about the difficulty of such concepts as "actual" versus "perceived" gender identity, and argued that because of its subjective nature, gender identity is unlike race. He also complained that the proposed law makes no religious exemption, and that employers should be able to refuse if compliance is too expensive. There is also, he said, a risk of violation of privacy. Lavy went on about that terrible "restroom" issue that so worries them, complaining about the problem of "men who are are allowed to use womens restrooms before having gender reassignment surgery." I think the technical term for these men would be "women," not to put too subtle a spin on it.
Lavy argued that if this law passed, a woman could complain and sue her employer because her privacy had been violated by a transgender woman seeing her naked in a bathroom or by seeing a naked transwoman in the bathroom. He was saying this invasion of privacy would be an unfair financial burden on the employer because they would have to defend against such lawsuits.
Lavy told the committee about our situation in Montgomery County, and asserted that the biggest question here is who goes into what bathroom. It is interesting that the shower-nuts have the nerve to go to this level of visibility with this lame argument. In fact, the biggest question in Montgomery County is discrimination. There is nothing in our new law about bathrooms, and doesn't need to be.
I am quoting from somebody's notes here, and am suppressing most of the ironic and other satirical comments that I am thinking as I type this.
Sabrina Marcus Taraboletti, Former Space Shuttle Engineer (and founding member of NCTE) testified next. She is the parent of two children, was raised in a strict Italian Catholic family, has an engineering degree and worked on the space shuttle, worked for United Space Alliance (a company owned jointly by Lockheed Martin and Boeing which manages the NASA space shuttle and International Space Station), and in 2003 was fired six weeks after announcing that she was going to transition from male to female. She was, she says, the fourth person there to transition; the first one was harassed until they left, the second one was reassigned to a dead-end job and quit, and the third one was harassed until they committed suicide. Taraboletti was finally fired.
Shannon Minter, Legal Director for National Center for Lesbian Rights and a transgender man, was the last witness. He argued we "need more than a patchwork of state and local laws and policies." He described numerous cases of individuals who lost their jobs simply because they were transgender. Twelve states and the District of Columbia, plus 100 localities and many employers do offer protection to transgender people, but "the brutal reality" is that transgender people are abused by employers. They are not protected by Title 7, and need legislation to protect them
After the testimony, Mr. Andrews, the chair of the committee, noted that the ADF's attorney, Mr. Lavy, seemed to think that accommodating a transgender person was like "making an Orthodox Jew eat pork." The Chairman wanted to know if Mr. Lavy believed an Orthodox Jew could refuse to employ a Catholic. Lavy said no. Then he asked about pacifists -- could a pacifist group refuse to hire a Marine veteran? Lavy did think they should be able to refuse. So Andrews asked, what about a white supremacist group? Should they be able to refuse to hire a person of color? Now Lavy said no. Those on the scene tell me that the crowd was not cheering for Mr. Lavy at this point, you might say. In fact laughter broke out a couple of times.
There was some discussion of the term "perceived," compared to "regarded as," in describing a person's gender identity. "Regarded as" refers to the overt conduct of the manager in how they relate to the person; "perceived as" can be totally internal, subjective, not overt.
There was a goose-bumpy moment when Rep. Phil Hare (D-Ill) told Mr. Lavy about a man who lived a couple of thousand years ago who hung around with people nobody liked. He concluded by noting that there is a moral obligation to protect others, that we're all equal, and that "we can legislate what is right, what is just and what is fair."
A great line from Rep. Hare: "We put people in space, we can figure out the bathrooms."
The hearing ended with the transgender witnesses describing what they do to make a living. Most of them have had a hard time since their transition.
This was a historic event. The transgender population has never been invited to testify before any Congressional body before. We hope that something will come of this, in particular the goal would be for ENDA to be revised to include gender identity as well as sexual orientation. At the end of the hearing, Mr. Andrews noted that the day before, debate had resulted in a vote to change the Americans With Disabilities Act, and he seemed confident that ENDA would be going the same direction. He noted that the hearing was an important step for all people, not only transgender, but other groups who suffer from being unpopular as well.
posted by JimK at 10:26 AM
28 Comments:
"She described everyday discrimination that transgender people face, and said "the importance of non-discrimination laws cannot be overstated." These laws tell people to "judge your fellow citizen by their integrity, talents ... rather than their sexual orientation or gender identity ... that irrational fear, irrational hate, have no place in our workplaces.""
It's actually not the job of government to tell us how to judge other people.
"Those on the scene tell me that the crowd was not cheering for Mr. Lavy at this point, you might say. In fact laughter broke out a couple of times."
This is one of the reasons that Congress has a lower approval rating than even the incompetent George Bush. Congessional hearings are supposed to help legislators gather information to use in making decisions on the nation's laws. It's not supposed to be a forum for legislators to bully and ridicule citizens, trying to put on a show for the camera.
"He noted that the hearing was an important step for all people, not only transgender, but other groups who suffer from being unpopular as well."
No, it was just for transgenders. no one else is being included. The question is why should transgenders receive special protection.
"There was a goose-bumpy moment when Rep. Phil Hare (D-Ill) told Mr. Lavy about a man who lived a couple of thousand years ago who hung around with people nobody liked."
Really? And where did we go from hanging with unpopular people to making a law that everyone else has to?
*tear* -for you, AnonBigot.
You see, not everyone is an anti-Christian bigot like you. Actually, all my straight Christian friends LOVE thy neighbor ...not HATE the neighbor, as you do.
Ugh, you poor unfortunate soul. I am still praying for you...and your soul.
They do?
Do they all think the government should be in charge of telling people how to be nice to each other?
How about transgender entrepreneurs? What if people don't buy stuff from them? Should the government make a law that we have to buy a certain amount of services from trangenders?
Maybe we should just file a plan with the government everyday clearing all our decisions. Wouldn't that be the fairest thing for everyone? Then there would be no doubt what Barney Frank wants ius to do.
To Anonymous: you are so sad and pitiful. So much hatred seeps from your pores. You seemingly do not like anything or anybody. You live in a constant state of fear and anger, as if somebody is out to get you. All the queers and trannies and just plain old ugly people are ganging up on you all the time. Your job is threatened, the "sanctity" of your marriage is under unceasing attack, your weak religious beliefs are constantly being derided, your civil rights are being stripped from you. You are also deluded and in need of some professional mental health assistance. Get a life!
Andrea- not anon
I thought MN Anon liked Dubya. Now he is calling him incompetent. Wow, what a turncoat.
Andrea- not anon
I thought MN Anon liked Dubya. Now he is calling him incompetent. Wow, what a turncoat.
"You are also deluded and in need of some professional mental health assistance."
Oh, you probably say that to everyone who tells you that you're not King Louis XIV.
"you are so sad and pitiful."
I am?
"So much hatred seeps from your pores."
It does?
"You seemingly do not like anything or anybody."
I don't?
"You live in a constant state of fear and anger, as if somebody is out to get you."
I do?
"All the queers and trannies and just plain old ugly people are ganging up on you all the time."
They are?
To answer your questions, AnonBigot-
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
is that nice, drick?
i thought you were a kind friend to all living things?
It's nice to see Barney Frank stand up for the T in our community. I think he and HRC took a hit with the non-inclusive ENDA.
rrjr
I read anon's comments for the same reasons I listen to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, and read the Concerned Women and PFOX websites.
"Born female, Sanchez told his parents at the age of five, "I'm a boy." He says his mother let him read a book about Christine Jorgensen, who was the first widely known transgender personality, having made a male-to-female transition in the early 1950s. He says his parents supported him through his childhood, and that he had about the same number of tutus and Tonka trucks."
Anyone who has ever had a five year old can tell you that kids at this age say all sorts of things. "I'm Spiderman. I'm a princess. I'm a dog. I'm a fairy. I'm a mailbox. I'm a chair. I'm a planet." Sanchez's mother was highly irresponsible for leading her daughter so willfully and fully down the path of gender confusion and into such a difficult life (the transgenders on this site are constantly telling us that their life is difficult, so I am taking them at their word).
It looks like this mother did a fine job of harming her child. Before everyone goes ballistic, I am not suggesting that any other parents have done or are doing what Sanchez's mother did. I am pointing out one very clear instance of a parent abusing the influence and power that she has over a child's mind.
Anon,
Diego is my friend, and a far better man than you'll ever be.
Your mother should be ashamed.
Maybe she already is, which is why she named you "Anonymous."
Dana,
I never once said or implied that your friend was not a far better person than I. That could very well be true - or not. I don't believe that people can be compared as to whether one is finer than the other, so my gut reaction would be to say that I am no better than your friend and your friend is no better than me. But, if you feel it is proper to compare people, then so be it.
Back to the point I was making...it is tragic that this mother chose to be so cavalier as to purposefully lead her child down a terribly difficult road. There are an infinite number of responses this mother could have made in response to her daughter's statement about being a boy. Infinite. And not one of those responses had to be hurtful in any way to the child -- from your perspective as a transgender nor from my perspective.
This mother did not need to blatantly lead her five-year-old child to the conclusion which ultimately led her to a life that you and others here say is fraught with the highest incidences of suicide, depression and the like. And, aside from the mental anguish, why would you purposefully lead your child toward a life that seems to require tons of drugs and surgeries to properly maintain? Why would any mother wish this for their child, much less take her child by the hand and hand her over to it?
I hope the democratic congress passes the gender identity non discrimination laws, without exemptions for public accomodations.
And I hope they do this, hold lots of hearings on it, right when gas hit 7.00 a gallona and right before the elections.
It will be a fabulous hit with the folks.
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
Remarkable, Anon -- you make a thoughtful (though completely incorrect comment) and then you're right back to your insults.
You made no effort to recognize Diego for the man he is, because if you had you would never have called his mother's decisions mistakes. And you have obviously paid no attention whatsoever to any of the discussions here over the years about the misery caused when parents abuse their children by forcing them to be their genital sex. You simply are incapable of recognizing that you are not your genital sex; you are your brain sex. So you ignore the overwhelming consensus among physicians, you ignore the textbooks on intersex and the testimony of thousands upon thousands of people, to what end? To go around insulting people who wish you no harm?
Hello all,
here is part of a posting i made on a transgender resources forum that says it all for me.
For the entire article here's the LINK:
http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,37928.0.html
Here's the brief:
We were all there. Old and young. Tall and short, thin or not. "pretty enough" or not.
It was truly a good day for all of us that were there. Someone from the NCTE i personally know with real warmth, actually gave up a seat so that i could get into the main hearing gallery because all 45 seats had been taken already. Other people did that too, so that more of US could get into the room.
One of the most elegant and truly graceful hearing rooms that i have ever been in, in my life. My dad's a really good lifelong historian of DC - one of the best ever actually. i know what went into the beautiful masterwork that inspired those buildings as well or better than most people that grew up around here, and what they should mean to both you and i alike, every single one of us, as Americans first of all - if that sort of thing really matters to you at all...
You know what ? - the consensus that i found amongst an entire room full of other transpeople, the same ones as all of the rest of us. Every single one of us that knows what real extreme human anguish and utter humiliation to the core of all human sensibilities actually feels like. Some more than others in one way or another but all of us for sure in one way or another. Everyone i talked to, liked what we saw and heard - - a lot.
A room full of some of the most brilliantly sensitive people - just like you - and just like me - you know what your emotional radar is like, right ? to digress a bit - - Being trans, we have to have some of the best mental and emotional radar imagineable right ? And some of us, more like any one of us, for instance, have had to have that, all of our lives to the extreme, just to get through it - right ?
So, that standing to reason, i felt as though something really good came out of what happened yesterday. If you didn't take the time to watch it - i am truly sorry and wished you had. question it's impact if you wish - i nust then question your judgement as to your perception of it's impact if you were not directly witness to it. Who am i ? I am speaking for myself as a human being and fellow citizen just like all of you, with thoughts and feelings, just like anyone else.
We all watched a very earnestly executed royal filleting, and thorough grilling (actually grilled to a stammering crisp) of the opposition counsels by the committee chairperson. It was fun. It was nicely and quite gracefully done with a good deal of pointedness and finesse, just to make the point all the more clear.
It was extremely supportive to every single corner of my own heart, and i am neither a stupid nor insensitve person.
Neither is anyone else there that i met or knew already.
I am ashamed, and totally disgusted of the country that i truly love with all of my heart. One that would have ever allowed to happen what has happened to the most highly distinguished military veterans that have served with utter distinction and committment, NASA aeorspace engineers that love their (former)jobs, mechanics, police, business consultants, and every other field of craft or interest you can possibly think of in 30 seconds, my own included.
This was made crystal clear by a few good men and women just like you and me, in the most intelligent, distinctively correct, and UNDENIABLY IRREFUTABLE terms that this problem IS a PROBLEM that MUST and WILL and CAN be addressed, no longer be ignored or denied, and that this single day spent talking with these legislators would not fall upon deaf ears.
This was clearly and resoundingly acknowledged in almost every single behavior and inflection of the chair's attitude and almost every member of the house that spoke about or questioned the testimonies.
It was clearly acknowledged that this single effort and moment in time spent there was in fact EFFECTIVE.
I am glad WE were there.
Sincerely,
Maryanne
And Dana - OMFG - you made me
laugh so evilly hard -
hahahahahhahahahahah....
that must be why she named you "anonymous" lololololol
Nice one. Thanks i needed that
The mothers and fathers who are cavalier and purposely lead their children down a terribly difficult road are those who force their LGBT teens to risk the harm of reparative therapy, which often leads to self-loathing and attempted suicide. Often these kids are forced to attempt to change their sexual orientation because of their parents' own homophobia.
This is a delightful new approach. It used to be that we were all normal children to them who turned out as adults to be deviant. Now it seems they recognize that we are trans children, who, obviously, cannot be sexually deviant because children are not sexual yet in that sense. And as a result these children can't be painted as predators and pedophiles in the bathrooms, either, so that argument dissolves.
So, they now blame our parents for what? For encouraging us to be trans? What a laugh! I was beaten by my parents and threatened with institutionalization. Every trans woman my age that I know had a similar experience. It obviously didn't work, but now sensitive and caring parents of trans kids are being labeled as evil. And, of course, their children's transition will sow confusion in the minds of good little boys and girls who will no longer know which sex they are. Gee, I thought all you had to do, Ruth, was take a shower and then look in the mirror. Or was it the other way around?
This is what happens when you live in denial, when you ignore facts, when you ignore evidence, and rely on solipsistic reasoning tinged with superficial religious analysis.
I'm looking forward to the next permutation
"Remarkable, Anon -- you make a thoughtful (though completely incorrect comment) and then you're right back to your insults."
Dana, You got an insult for an insult. The whole thing you and Wavy Jim Gravy have about how all of a person's characteristics are fair game for insults other than a a transgender's confusion is just a political game, basically trying to establish as unquestionable the contention of those who believe their fantasy is fact.
Funny thing is I didn't make the thoughtful comment you refer to but the comment was correct. Steering a young confused kid into such a difficult life based on a couple of comments or interests is child abuse.
basically trying to establish as unquestionable the contention of those who believe their fantasy is fact.
It sounds like you're talking about people of faith to me. Each one of them thinks their religion is the religion.
The Atheist
There are many more LGB teens who are forced into harmful reparative therapy than there are trans kids. There is documentation of the harm that such therapy causes. Where is your concern for the self-loathing they are taught which leads them to attempt suicide? Where is your outrage for their parents' projecting their own loathing of LGB people onto their own LGB kids?
One Anon, two Anon, three Anon, four. No one takes responsibility, because all are cowards, living in fear of actually having to stand up for themselves in a public forum. How un-American.
Tell me, Anon, why do you hate America so much?
Not that you'd be surprised, but I believe that a parent, once educated about the science of sex and gender, who then forces his child to conform to his/her genitals, is guilty of child abuse. Having suffered it, and studied it, I think I'm a bit more of an expert than you are.
Enjoy your Dominionist fantasies. Why not move to Louisiana where you can revel under the tutelage of the extremist, exorcism-performing Governor, Mr. Jindal? A perfect example of the zealousness of the convert. A Brown graduate who should be ashamed of himself (and told so by his former biology professor) for attempting to send Louisiana back into its pre-1803 days of creationism and anti-science education and belief.
"Next up was Glen Lavy, Senior Counsel for Alliance Defense Fund […]. He said that some employers have deeply held religious beliefs that forbid them hiring transgender people."
Added Lavy, “Look it up in the Bible if you don’t believe me, it’s right here in the book of Job.”
Anonymous (Theresa, I presume) said...
""Born female, Sanchez told his parents at the age of five, "I'm a boy." He says his mother let him read a book about Christine Jorgensen, who was the first widely known transgender personality, having made a male-to-female transition in the early 1950s. He says his parents supported him through his childhood, and that he had about the same number of tutus and Tonka trucks."
Anyone who has ever had a five year old can tell you that kids at this age say all sorts of things. […] Sanchez's mother was highly irresponsible for leading her daughter so willfully and fully down the path of gender confusion and into such a difficult life (the transgenders on this site are constantly telling us that their life is difficult, so I am taking them at their word).
It looks like this mother did a fine job of harming her child.[…]"
And:
"Back to the point I was making...it is tragic that this mother chose to be so cavalier as to purposefully lead her child down a terribly difficult road. […]
This mother did not need to blatantly lead her five-year-old child to the conclusion which ultimately led her to a life that you and others here say is fraught with the highest incidences of suicide, depression and the like. And, aside from the mental anguish, why would you purposefully lead your child toward a life that seems to require tons of drugs and surgeries to properly maintain? Why would any mother wish this for their child, much less take her child by the hand and hand her over to it?"
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So based on that one beginning paragraph, you feel you are in a position to judge the entire life story of Mr. Diego Sanchez and his mother?
It didn’t take much to find Mr. Sanchez’ written and video testimony, which included:
“My name is Diego Miguel Sanchez, and I am a 51-year old transsexual Latino man. I was born female and transitioned to male. I grew up as an Army brat around the world, ending up in Augusta, Georgia, where my 80-year-old mother lives today.
When I was five, I told my parents that I was born wrong, that I felt like a boy inside. My mother showed me a magazine with Christine Jorgensen on the cover. She told me that she didn’t know if there were other people like me – girls who felt like boys -- but that this woman was born a boy, felt like a girl and was able to become a woman later in life. Mom told me that by the time I grew up, it would be okay. From that time, my parents gently, privately, dually socialized me, but it was our secret, of sorts. My mom prepared me for life as girls are expected to be, and my dad taught me the lessons that boys needed to become men. It was rough – I had as many tutus as Tonka Trucks. But I could survive the former because of the latter. My parents always gave me hope, and my positive outlook on life, despite painful hardships, is the fruit of that loving labor. Mom was mostly right; it’s almost okay for me these days.”
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“Mom was mostly right; it’s almost okay for me these days.”
No thanks to people like you.
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His parents “lead” him to no other place than a place of freedom where he could make his own decisions about what was best for him - because they saw him as a human being, and not as a sex organ as you suggest they should have.
We can debate the merits of giving one’s children the option of choosing their gender destiny, but I find it dishonest of you to characterize these parents as having been “cavalier” about it in this instance, especially given that we’re talking about the 60’s in which his upbringing took place.
Further, to suggest that the satisfaction of his personhood today (happiness) is the result of “harm” and “damage,” is to imply that he’s an idiot TO THIS DAY. Was at 5 yrs old, and still is. Same BS you CRG'rs regularly imply without ever saying so.
We’re confused if we’re “gender confused,” and when we transition and become happy productive fully functioning members of society, then we’re STILL confused about being happy about it! There’s just no way to win with you people. And what’s your solution? Bow to your binary-gender religious supremacist will. And if that doesn’t work, we’re just God’s little societal throw aways who get what’s coming to us.
Which restroom is Diego supposed to use? Which shower? You’ve set yourself up as a bastion of clarity on the subject yet you refuse to answer those questions, yet you continue to poke your head in, willy nilly, with your 2 cents worth every time something in particular offends you. It’s pathetic.
P.S. "fraught with the highest incidences of suicide, depression and the like"
The DIRECT result of people like you. You take no responsibility what so ever.
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