Judge Rules Against Transgender Rights: Appeal Possible
Judge Robert Greenberg has just issued his ruling on the gender identity nondiscrimination bill referendum. I haven't had a chance to read it closely yet, and what I got was a scanned PDF file, meaning I can't copy and paste from it.
As I understand it, the judge ruled that the complaint was not filed within the allowed filing period. You have ten days after the Board of Elections verifies the signatures to complain, but the problem, as you recall, is that there is no legal standard for when the ten day period starts. The Board doesn't announce their decision to anyone except the person who filed the petitions, so people opposed don't have any way to find out.
I'll read through this more carefully tonight and let you know what the judge said. For now, here's the important part:
There's a very good chance this goes to the Court of Special Appeals immediately.
Several things can happen. One, our side appeals and win, and the referendum is called off. Two, our side appeals and loses, and there is a referendum. Three, no appeal, all efforts go toward winning the referendum in November. Some of the decision will depend on costs -- it costs a lot to keep a legal staff working on an appeal, but it will cost a whole lot more to educate the public on the issue and mount a campaign to win the election.
I'll keep you informed as news trickles in. Right now it's chaos.
As I understand it, the judge ruled that the complaint was not filed within the allowed filing period. You have ten days after the Board of Elections verifies the signatures to complain, but the problem, as you recall, is that there is no legal standard for when the ten day period starts. The Board doesn't announce their decision to anyone except the person who filed the petitions, so people opposed don't have any way to find out.
I'll read through this more carefully tonight and let you know what the judge said. For now, here's the important part:
It is therefore this 24th day of July, 2008, by the Circuit Court for Montgomery County.
ORDERED, that Defendant's Motion for Summary Judgment on the Complaint for Judicial Relief and Declaratory Judgment is hereby GRANTED, and it is further
ORDERED, that judgment is entered in favor of Defendant; and it is further
ORDERED, that this court declares that the petition brought by Maryland Citizens for a Responsible Government contains the requisite number of signatures necessary to place Bill No. 27-07, "Non-Discrimination -- Gender Identity" on the November 4, 2008, General Election ballot, for consideration by voters of this county, and it is further
ORDERED, that Montgomery County certify the ballot question and wording thereof for inclusion on the November 4, 2008, ballot no later than August 18, 2008.
There's a very good chance this goes to the Court of Special Appeals immediately.
Several things can happen. One, our side appeals and win, and the referendum is called off. Two, our side appeals and loses, and there is a referendum. Three, no appeal, all efforts go toward winning the referendum in November. Some of the decision will depend on costs -- it costs a lot to keep a legal staff working on an appeal, but it will cost a whole lot more to educate the public on the issue and mount a campaign to win the election.
I'll keep you informed as news trickles in. Right now it's chaos.
posted by JimK at 2:52 PM
46 Comments:
"Right now it's chaos."
Please.
Right now, it's clarity.
Democracy won!
Many may not know but this same thing happened years ago when the county had sexual orientation added to the discrimination code. Citizens signed a petition and got enough signatures for a referendum. A lunatic fringe group hired some fancy-pants lawyer who challenged the signatures and won. Citizens were denied their voice.
This time, we didn't fall for it.
This time, democracy won.
The arc of history bends toward justice.
Democracy won!
Party tonight on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial!
See you there!
Yea, we get to keep discriminating against trannies. Yea yea yea, party tonight!
In the immortal words of Sly Stone:
When we party, we party hardy!!
Yea, we get to keep choosing who we want to hang with. Yea yea yea, party tonight!
Trust me, AnonBigot.
There are not many people in their right mind who would want to hang with you.
Rock on, man. Why don't you go beat up some minorities to celebrate your hatred for the human race.
"Appeal Possible"
ha ha ha!
ho ho ho!
hee hee hee hee!
Hee-Haw!
Yay! I’m still a fraud!
Yay! Even if I win I’m still a fraud!
Yay! I don’t even care that I’m a fraud!
Yay! I don’t even know what the meaning of fraud is!
Yay! Yay! Yay! … Jesus … Morality … “traditional marriage” … “family values” …
--
UHG! Good God man, give it up.
I will GLADLY lose to people like you, every day for the rest of my life, if it means not losing my soul.
Man, you are in the bell jar.
then, in the immortal words of Dave Clark, you can say:
"yes, I'm glad all over"
its not over yet.
it's just begun. sounds like the critical work should start. crw got this referendum together by scaring people about transgenders and bathrooms. so it is now up to TFF to educate folks. I have faith that they will do just that.
and by the way, the wording speaks to the issue. Michelle Turner seems to want the wording to reflect the fear tactics her group used.
Why is EM so afraid to allow citizens of MC a vote? Sure looks like they don't like democracy.
There's a difference between democracy and the usurpation of it.
And I think it's phony to embrace the principles of democracy after you have lied to a number of the populance to get the votes to push the referendum.
But I am still interested to see how this will play out.
I don't speak for EM but as a MC resident I'll tell why I don't think we should "allow citizens of MC a vote" about adding gender identity to the existing non-discrimination law.
In a democracy, you don't put minority group rights up to the vote. Do you remember how the civil rights and voting right acts came to be? Congress wrote and approved those laws and no non-elected citizen ever voted on them. These laws are the epitome of democracy.
I think the real question is, why are some people so eager to put adding "gender identity" to our non-discrimintation law to the vote?
Pat
"In a democracy, you don't put minority group rights up to the vote."
Why not?
Why should some elite with an agenda make every decision?
"Minority group" is somewhat disingenuous. Moral deviants are, thankfully, always minorities. So are bank robbers, heroin users and opera buffs. Do they get special rights too?
Taxicab rides and oyster rockefeller plates are not rights. People should be able to serve and associate with whom they want. This is all part of the social contract. We partner we those who share viewpoints with.
"Anonymous" - Yesterday I said:"... in keeping with your general elitist philosophy, shouldn't the folks who hire "these people" have the right, in their own homes for heaven's sake, to treat these employees in any way they choose? According to you...that's "the good old American Way". It will be interesting to see you reconcile your position on this issue with the discriminatory treatment of transgendered citizens.
You won't be able to because you are a mass of illogical contradictions and bigotry."
Today you said: ""Minority group" is somewhat disingenuous. Moral deviants are, thankfully, always minorities. So are bank robbers, heroin users and opera buffs. Do they get special rights too?...People should be able to serve and associate with whom they want. This is all part of the social contract. We partner we (sic) those who share viewpoints with."
You clearly do not favor equal rights and protections for minority people - in fact you abhor the very idea. And...you simply do not get a basic tenet of our democracy...when any citizen is denied equal access to PUBLIC services...that is, to the same rights that others in society enjoy, they are being discriminated against. They are not "special rights"!
You may "serve and associate with whom [you] want" in any private aspect of your life (and I cringe at the thought of who you associate with) but you may NOT deny the rights of citizens that you do not happen to like the same public services and accommodations that you have because they happen to be a minority or people with whom you are uncomfortable.
I definitely do not like you, but I am not going to launch a referendum campaign to deny you the basic rights that all citizens in this country are entitled.
You have definitely reinforced the disheartening truth that just about every body in this site already knows: you are a bigot and hate-filled individual. Your identifying word for today is: "idiot"
An "Anonymous" fan
Thanks, fan, for showing the rational and mainstream reader what pro-family forces are up against. Your rant here epitomizes the fringe mentality perectly.
That party last night was something, wasn't it?
Anyone with a hangover this morning should try a Bloody Mary.
We'll do it again on Election Night!
Why should some elite with an agenda make every decision?
Some "elite with an agenda?" You mean our elected representatives, whether in Congress or on the Montgomery County Council who pass anti-discrimination laws for the rest of us to follow, are "elites with agendas" to you?
I disagree. IMHO they are leaders, doing what we elected them to do.
You don't seem to mind the "elites with agendas" in the Bush Administration making "every decision" from funding medically inaccurate abstinence-only education programs to busting our budget nation-building in Iraq to using more loans from China to bail out the private investors in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
When Montgomery County voters are asked
Shall the Act to prohibit discrimination in housing, employment, public accommodations, cable television service and taxicab service on the basis of gender identity become law?
the answer will be a resounding "Yes."
"the answer will be a resounding "Yes.""
This from a person who thought CRG would never get enough signatures to veto proposed bill 23-07.
Who thought the BOE would never certify the signatures.
Who thought that it was a sure thing that the judge would throw out the petitions.
That's three strikes, our bombastic friend.
Why, oh why, do you think you're not out!
Bill 23-07 does not simply give a minority group rights. It FORCES the citizens to embrace the notion that people can change their gender at will. It is an "in your face" re-definition of "male" and "female." Anyone who thinks that THAT bitter pill will be swallowed by the public without question is in for a rude awakening.
The majority of people revere and respect reprodutive biological differences between men and women. I know that many of the people who write here do not place any value on these biological differences. They do not revere and respect the reproductive genetalia, and its accompanying beauty, that they were born with. This is unfortunate, from my perspective, but it does not mean that they should be permitted to redefine the essence of life, of reality, for the rest of us.
If this group has specific problems, then the Montgomery Council can address those, if they wish. However, they must do so without trying to force the majority of the population to believe that male and female differences are no more important than the dress we choose to wear, or the makeup we apply.
In Montgomery County, it takes longer to get a permit to restore a historical house than it did to pass Bill 23-07. If the County Council doesn't think that this legislation deserves a long, hard evaluation, then they they are not wise enough to act as our leaders. If they had any humility, they would speak up in pure honesty, admit that they made a mistake on this one -- and go back to the drawing board. That they don't do this speaks volumes about their character, both individually and collectively. That they haven't done this means that not one of them is worthy of our trust.
Of course, it is never too late and we can always hope that one of them will take a stand toward true leadership, and work with all of the citizens to review and solve this issue.
Bill 23-07 is a law to prohibit discrimination. All of MoCo will vote to approve that, except for maybe the few homophobes who live here.
they must do so without trying to force the majority of the population to believe that male and female differences are no more important than the dress we choose to wear
On which page of does it say that "the population [is being forced] to believe that male and female differences are no more important" than anything else? I don't see it anywhere in my copy of Bill 23-07.
This wouldn't be yet another bogus straw man argument from Anon would it?
Why yes, yes it is.
"Bill 23-07 is a law to prohibit discrimination."
Actually, that isn't true. There is a whole world of various types of discrimination that are not prohibited by 23-07. This bill just says you can't discriminate against those who wear the clothes which are appropriate to a gender they don't belong to.
Why should the government provide people that do that some special protection against the social consequences of their actions that the general populace doesn't get?
Further, 23-07 changes definitions by saying that your "gender identity" is whatever you "express". This is an attack on the very concept of gender, saying you are whatever you decide to be.
This bill will go down in flames when the voters get a shot at it.
Which is as it should be since so many of its proponents are flaming!
Crash and burn!
and that will be the thing that defeats you anonymous. I think the voters will distinguish between fear tactics and an attempt to prevent discrimination. All you can add is confusion and bad hypothetics.
I'm not worried "the thing" that will defeat us, whatver you mean by that.
We've got the momentum.
Truth and democracy is in ascendance.
Special privileges for special groups isn't coming to your town any time soon.
"Anonymous" Troll...that must have been quite a party you all had last night...all 7 of you crammed into one of your favorite shower stalls, whooping it up! "That party last night was something, wasn't it?
Anyone with a hangover this morning should try a Bloody Mary."
How about trying a Molotov Cocktail to cure your usually celebratory hangover? If you had done that after whooping it up after your last "victory" we wouldn't have your viral presence on this site to laugh about!
"all 7 of you"
now, now...
I know you guys are bitter.
Ever since you jumped into this whole transgender thing, you've suffered one humiliating defeat after another.
I'm sure TTF's leadership wishes they'd never staked their credibility on this ill-fated bill.
Still, let's be honest here:
more than 7 people signed those petitions
23-07 will be swept into the garbage bin of history by the citizens of Montgomery "on to you" County!
“Bill 23-07 does not simply give a minority group rights. It FORCES the citizens to embrace the notion that people can change their gender at will. It is an "in your face" re-definition of "male" and "female."
Notion: belief, idea, concept, opinion, thought, understanding, etc.
Why you poor poor persecuted thing you. How frightening it must be for you to have to think about those you despise being treated with respect.
I never realized this bill was about FORCING you to think thoughts you don’t want to think.
Such evil EVIL notions. Out of all the thinking minds in the universe, why, of all places, do these thoughts insist on taking up residence in your head?
There should be laws against thoughts like that - and they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of-that-law.
The sheer audacity of these notions forcing their way into your head and demanding that you think about them. It’s monstrous I tell ya, just monstrous!
"There should be laws against thoughts like that"
Typical TTF twisting of truth.
You and your slimeball friends are the ones in favor of passing a law.
Pro-family forces favor freedom.
Get on the side of truth and democracy and freedom.
That's the current of history!
"Ever since you jumped into this whole transgender thing, you've suffered one humiliating defeat after another."
TTF suffered humiliating defeat on the curriculum containing information about sexual orientation at first too. But in the end and after endless RECALLMONTGOMERYSCHOOLBOARD whining "the sky is falling, the sky is falling!" the right ruling was rendered. I predict a repeat performance on the issue of gender identity because Montgomery County is a bastion of tolerance and acceptance, except for the few bigots like you. Party hardy now because you'll be licking your self-inflicted wounds soon enough.
“Pro-family forces favor freedom.”
You favor the freedom to limit the freedom of others. There's a difference.
"I predict a repeat performance on the issue of gender identity because Montgomery County is a bastion of tolerance and acceptance"
Tolerance is an individual choice. Forced association by a repressive government is called coercion.
If voters had been able to vote on the misleading curriculum, they would have rejected it. The only time a TTFer ran for office, the voters clearly rejected the individual, who came in fourth place in the election. MC detests the antics of TTF.
"You favor the freedom to limit the freedom of others. There's a difference."
I favor the right of anyone to pursue happiness. I don't favor anyone being forced to assist them or partner with them. That's not freedom. It should be every individual's freedom to choose who to accompany them on life's endeavors. Telling someone they can't rent out their property or provide services unless they do it for anyone who comes along is not freedom.
Would it be freedom if the government told you who you had to work for?
Drop the disingenuous rhetoric.
"The only time a TTFer ran for office, the voters clearly rejected the individual, who came in fourth place in the election."
Speaking of TTF's revulsion against freedom, this aforementioned individual doesn't even think citizens should be free to petition the government.
The aforementioned individual actually went and told petition-takers they were engaging in illegal activity!
TTF wants lots of laws so that any time someone says something they don't like, they can say it's illegal to disagree with TTF.
Beware the accumulation of undue influence by the gay agenda complex.
People have every right to petition the government. But to try and change laws through lying and fear tactics is ethically wrong.
Is it just me or is anonymous trying to shift away from the bathroom fear argument his side used to get this referendum pushed?
People have every right to petition the government. But to try and change laws through lying and fear tactics is ethically wrong.
Is it just me or is anonymous trying to shift away from the bathroom fear argument his side used to get this referendum pushed?
it's just you
but it was a nice try
I mean, what other type of rhetoric is left for the losers
“-I don't favor anyone being forced to assist them or partner with them.
-It should be every individual's freedom to choose who to accompany them on life's endeavors.
-Telling someone they can't rent out their property or provide services unless they do it for anyone who comes along is not freedom.
Drop the disingenuous rhetoric.”
Except, dear, supporters of the referendum are not expressing concern over the “anti-freedom” portions of the anti-discrimination code when it comes to:
“race, color, sex, age, marital status, religious creed, ancestry, national origin, disability, sexual orientation [which includes hetero], genetic status, presence of children, family responsibilities or source of income…”
If you were expressing as much outrage over the “special protections” these groups enjoy, then you might have a point. At the very least you position would come across as infinitely more sincere.
So until you can be consistent in voicing opposition to ALL the “forced association” categories that are ALREADY codified into law, your claim that the gender-identity portion of it is somehow about freedom itself, comes across as nothing but a ruse to distract from the real issue that you just want to be in charge of who is worthy of protections - Ergo; You favor the freedom to limit the freedom of others.
If you feel the need to appease your conscience to the contrary, then by all means, delude yourself away. But don’t expect the rest of us to participate in the sanctimonious little fantasy that you would somehow be willing to extend that same “freedom” of non-association, to everyone else -- when it comes to goods and services -- that you so vociferously defend for yourself. Because clearly, this is not the case, or you would be arguing against the ENTIRE non-discrimination code, not just the portions of it you don’t like.
So either buck up or take your own advice in dropping the disingenuous rhetoric.
"Anonymous" Troll...remind me once again: exactly how many candidates for any office in Montgomery County or the State Legislature or the Board of Education has CRC/CRW/CRWhatever put forth for the voters in Mongtomery County to judge and elect within the past 5 - 10 years? Seems to me I remember the number: 0 That is an impresively whopping mandate to adopt or support your bigoted thinking and discriminatory proposals, isn't it? And in the thinking of American voters in 2008 where there is a relvusion of bizarre and backward theocratic, right-wing wacko ideas and programs, I doubt you will get even 10% of the votes here in M.C. in the November election. You have absolutely no touch with reality! And...I am awaiting your usually smirky and snide retort. Trolls just can't help themselves.
Diogenes
Dio and Slob, I guess you guys have to say stuff like this. We'll let your illogic slide for the weekend.
I mean, what other type of rhetoric is left for the losers?
Maybe you guys should get together for a drink and commiserate. Think of the hours spent scouring signatures, the money wasted on legal fees, the leave used to take off and sit around the courtroom.
And for what?
Dang these pesky judges, eh?
You guys had enough?
or are you thirsty for more?
"Anonymous" Troll...would you please be so kind to address the issue of why you and your cohorts have not offered up ANY candidate in ANY election in Montgomery County? Is it because you know, deep down in that cold heart of yours, that you could never win an election on any of the issues you propound? You are very skillful at side-stepping questions and issues that you cannot control in the discussions here. Please...we are all waiting with breathless anticipation to see how you double-talk your way out of this fact...you are afraid to expose your bigoted thinking and ideas to the voters in Montgomery County because you know you will lose any electoral battle.
Diogenes
Diogenes -- Democrats and Republicans signed the petition. I'm not sure why you're turning this into a Democrat vs. Republican issue. Thankfully, this issue crosses party lines.
Dio
CRG is going one better. They're putting the actual issue on the ballot. That TTF spent so much time, money and energy frantically trying to stop the voters from deciding the issue says clearer than anything else that TTF knows exactly how the vote will turn out.
If they thought 23-07 would be affirmed by the voters, they'd be celebrating instead of mourning right now. Instead....
"Right now it's chaos."
Anon, in case anybody reading this believes you ... TTF hasn't spent a penny on this, and not much time or energy either. I comment here on the blog, and some of us have attended hearings etc. so that we can report to our readers what's going on. A couple of us helped check petitions and volunteer for things to help out, but not as TTF members, just as concerned individuals.
You like to pretend that this is our fight but we're not part of it, we are simply citizens who want to see that some bigots who live in our community are kept in check. We are very clear about which side of the controversy we stand on, but we aren't involved in any of the decisions that are being made. A judge, for instance, doesn't rule for or against TTF, there are actual plaintiffs in the case.
JimK
Thanks for clearing that up, Jim.
Tell me, what percentage of your posts since February have addressed this topic?
“Diogenes -- Democrats and Republicans signed the petition. […] Thankfully, this issue crosses party lines.”
I’m sure you’re quite grateful that dishonesty transcends political party affiliation.
“Is it just me or is anonymous trying to shift away from the bathroom fear argument his side used to get this referendum pushed?”
Agreed. I too wonder why Anon isn‘t continuing to push the notion that…
OH NO! OH NO! The world is falling apart!
If the naïve citizens of Montgomery County vote to ensure that its own ‘gender confused’ citizens can’t get fired for no reason at all, then somehow, child-killing-monsters will suddenly be struck with the notion to buy evening gowns, matching pumps, panty hoes, makeup and wigs - in order to seamlessly blend into -- without notice -- ladies locker-rooms and bathrooms, in order to rape the women inside!
It’s virtually foolproof, I must admit. I can only assume that this must be a serious threat and that these monsters have been blending in all along - just waiting for a bill like 23-07 to pass.
After all, what’s stopping them, the guy at Rio got away with it. Right?
_
P.S. Won't somebody PLEASE think about the children?!
“Slob, […] We'll let your illogic slide for the weekend.
I mean, what other type of rhetoric is left for the losers?”
Well that’s not fair. Just because I was sarcastic and condescending in expressing my point doesn’t make the point I made any less legitimate.
Rose the unknown (a cousin of Sir Oswald the Anonymous brings up "democracy" and whether or not elected officials should vote on rights or whether they should be determined by referendum (i.e. which is more democratic)> In my opinion, when a society becomes to come apart in its civil sense, no one is safe. The anschluss came about by referendum, but the Nuremburg Laws were enacted by the Reichstag. Hitler was also granted the title of Fuhrer by an act of the Reichstag, which had supposedly been elected by the people.
The reality is that referendums held in isolation have generally very low turnout, and don't represent the views of the people, and that well-worded referenda held at the same time as presedential elections are more true to the views of the electorate. It is also true that they are very expensive. It's is of course a "big lie" that EM and Lambda Legal tried legal methods to stop this because they are against democracy and think they will lose. That's tired tripe. It is simply much, much less expensive.
I note that in one 24 hour period, Sir Oswald/Rose has managed to call trans people moral deviants, equate them with heroin addicts, bank robbers and opera buffs (does he/she/it have something against opera), and to insult emproph and aunt bea, and asserted the right of taxi drivers and restaurants to deny anyone they choose service. Oswald/Rose clearly would like to return to a segregated society.
I went to an interesting workshop Friday on limiting power differentials/oppression within the lgbt rights movement. It's something that we try to pay attention to: to keep our movement accessible to all people, regardless of their privilege. This distinguishes us remarkably from the anti-lgbt forces in this country, who are trying desparately by whatever methods they can find(lawsuits, referenda, legislation, executive order, school board policy, faking signatures, etc.) to limit access to people of whom they do not approve.
Who are true to the American Dream?
rrjr
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