The Bush Recession
Here's a graph from the Speaker of the House web site, gives you a little idea what it is we are going into.
posted by JimK at 6:52 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|||
Tuesday, February 10, 2009The Bush Recession
Here's a graph from the Speaker of the House web site, gives you a little idea what it is we are going into.
posted by JimK at 6:52 AM
|
Previous Posts
| ||
32 Comments:
and what's different between the 1990 and 2000 recessions and now?
that's right, you guessed it:
two years ago, Democrats took control of Congress
economists agree that George Bush ended the 2000 recession with his tax cuts
during the Reagan presidency, we discovered that Keynesian economics was a myth
reducing marginal tax rates and capital gains taxes eliminated the distortion to market efficiencies and gave us a quarter century of virtually uninterupted growth
the cause of our problems now, and Obama agreed last night, is not Bush tax cuts but a misguided attempt to push home ownership on people who could not afford it
this was exacerbated by Chinese currency manipulations which flooded our system with demand for investment vehicles
the Clinton surpluses, that you guys swoon over, were largely created when Clinton was forced by Newt Gingrich to reform welfare in ways that didn't encourage low income people to not work
so now, after 25 years, the current situation is being used by Keynesians to argue they were right after all
there is little evidence of that, however
going back to the 1930s and on, it has never worked
even John Kennedy cut taxes on capital gains to promote GDP growth, the so-called tax cuts for the rich you decry
the cause of our problems now, and Obama agreed last night, is ...a misguided attempt to push home ownership on people who could not afford it
Here's what President Barack Obama said last night:
What got us into this mess initially were banks taking exorbitant, wild risks with other people's monies based on shaky assets and because of the enormous leverage, where they had $1 worth of assets and they were betting $30 on that $1, what we had was a crisis in the financial system.
That led to a contraction of credit, which, in turn, meant businesses couldn't make payroll or make inventories, which meant that everybody became uncertain about the future of the economy, so people started making decisions accordingly, reducing investment, initiating layoffs, which, in turn, made things worse.
He's talking about the credit derivatives that banks created, which they hoped would reap rewards from the mortgage defaults the derivatives were based on. One reason for those mortgage defaults I noted in a recent reply to Orin on another thread, was HUD's ADDI program, which incredibly, Bush wanted to increase 500% in his FY2009 budget. ADDI helps people of limited means with downpayment, closing costs, or needed repairs on a new home, but offers no assistance to those buyers to meet the continuing monthly mortgage payments.
the cause of our problems now, and Obama agreed last night, is not Bush tax cuts
Here's what President Barack Obama said about Bush's tax cuts last night:
What I won't do is return to the failed theories of the last eight years that got us into this fix in the first place, because those theories have been tested, and they have failed. And that's what part of the election in November was all about.
He added:
...my initial measure of success is creating or saving 4 million jobs. That's bottom line number one, because, if people are working, then they've got enough confidence to make purchases, to make investments. Businesses start seeing that consumers are out there with a little more confidence, and they start making investments, which means they start hiring workers. So step number one: job creation.
Step number two: Are we seeing the credit markets operate effectively? You know, I can't tell you how many businesses that I talk to that are successful businesses but just can't get credit.
Part of the problem in Elkhart that I heard about today was the fact that -- this is the R.V. [recreational vehicle] capital of America. You've got a bunch of R.V. companies that have customers who want to purchase R.V.s, but even though their credit is good, they can't get the loan.
Now, the businesses also can't get loans to make payments to their suppliers. But when they have consumers, consumers can't get the loans that they need. So normalizing the credit markets is, I think, step number two.
Step number three is going to be housing. Have we stabilized the housing market? Now, you know, the federal government doesn't have complete control over that, but if our plan is effective, working with the Federal Reserve Bank, working with the FDIC, I think what we can do is stem the rate of foreclosure and we can start stabilizing housing values over time.
And the most -- the -- the biggest measure of success is whether we stop contracting and shedding jobs and we start growing again.
Now, you know, I don't have a crystal ball. And as I said, this is an unprecedented crisis. But my hope is that after a difficult year -- and this year is going to be a difficult year -- that businesses start investing again, they start making decisions that, you know, in fact, there's money to be made out there, customers or consumers start feeling that their jobs are stable and safe, and they start making purchases again, and, if we get things right, then, starting next year, we can start seeing significant improvement.
barryo kept blubbering reducing marginal tax rates and capital gains taxes eliminated the distortion to market efficiencies and gave us a quarter century of virtually uninterupted growth
Uh barryo, that quarter century of growth included two recessions under two Bush Presidents, and 14 months ago, still with a Bush for President, we began a new one. Jobs are free falling faster and farther than at any time since the Great Depression, even faster than Bush's approval rating.
you'll note that nowhere does Obama claim that the tax cuts or any deficit is the cause of the economic problems
credit him with that much intelligence
no extra credit for Bea
the problem was the government intervention in the housing market
Bush may have played a part but Democrats were the main antagonists
Barney Frank: I think we need to roll the dice on subsidized housing
suffering people around the globe appreciate you gambling on their future, Barney
certain tax cuts on the rich indeed promote economic growth
the growth of the last 25 years in America is unprecedented in world economic history
the marvel of the two recessions were how mild they were and resilient low marginal tax rates and low capital gains rates had made our economy
btw, the last year of the Clinton presidency, we were in a recession
it was ended by George Bush's tax cuts
thanks for quoting Obama about the failed policies of the last eight years
could we specify what policies and how they failed?
would that be too much to ask for from the mediocre Barry O?
thanks for quoting Obama about the failed policies of the last eight years
could we specify what policies and how they failed?
would that be too much to ask for from the mediocre Barry O?
You really have to work on that reading comprehension, barryo. Let's go over it again.
Obama said What I won't do is return to the failed theories of the last eight years that got us into this fix in the first place, because those theories have been tested, and they have failed. And that's what part of the election in November was all about.
The word "policies" does not appear in that "quote" anywhere, does it?
Just the other day, Associated Press reported President Obama said:
Obama said the criticisms he has heard "echo the very same failed economic theories that led us into this crisis in the first place, the notion that tax cuts alone will solve all our problems."
"I reject those theories, and so did the American people when they went to the polls in November and voted resoundingly for change," said the president, who was elected with an Electoral College landslide last fall...
The vast majority of Americans spoke loudly and clearly in November. But not, of course Americans like you, barryo, who think tax cuts are *the* panacea for everything. Look at that graph up there again to remind yourself where Bush's tax cuts and economic leadership have put us. We are free falling into the abyss.
Barney Frank: I think we need to roll the dice on subsidized housing
suffering people around the globe appreciate you gambling on their future, Barney.
Oh brother, barryo, get a grip. Blaming the gay guy isn't helping your case. Contrary to your hallucinations, Barney Frank did not dictate our economic rules all by himself. All your **mediocre** attempt to foist blame for "suffering people around the globe" on him does is to show just how desperate you are.
"What I won't do is return to the failed theories of the last eight years that got us into this fix in the first place, because those theories have been tested, and they have failed. And that's what part of the election in November was all about."
Theories would only have an opportunity to fail if they were put in policies. Tax cuts didn't fail and if they had been the only economic policy, we'd be alright now.
What failed was governmental tinkering with free markets in order to achieve certain social goals. The result is our current disaster and Democrats want to make it the norm.
You have yet to point to any example of governmental spending stimulating the American economy. Didn't work for FDR, didn't work for LBJ, won't work for BHO. If the 1930s are any indication, prepare for ten years of suffering among the lower classes in America. The effects of the Great Society can still be seen on our inner city.
Bea
Could you tell us the last time a Keynesian won the Nobel Prize for Economics?
Oh brother, barryo. Why don't you tell us how you think non-Keynesian Nobel Prize winners in Economics are going to bail our asses out of this mess we're in.
During BHO's mediocre press conference on Monday, he said he'd defer any question about the crisis in financial institutions because he didn't want to steal the thunder from Tim Geithner's plan, to be announced the next day.
Might have been a good idea for Barry to check and make sure Tim had a plan before making that statement.
Of course, that would apply to his whole presidency at this point.
Barry, could you check things out before making these statements?
America's head tax evader, who had to be confirmed because he is such a financial genius and the country really needs that now, unveiled his "plan" yesterday. The stock market promptly dropped 5%. The Washington Post says it's "more a concept than a plan". Chris Dodd and Barney Frank are beside themself in disgust.
The Obama administration takes another hit.
That administration began a few weeks ago with an inaugural address so flat most observers were surmising that was part of a strategy.
Then, there was the revelation of Obama failing to do his homework before making nominations. It's hard to know what's worse: the ones too scandalous to be approved from Richardson to Daschle or the ones who made it. Tim Geithner, the new Treasury Secretary, who doesn't pay his taxes until nominated, and Hillary Clinton, Secretary of State, whose husband has received millions in payments from foreign governments, are among the most ridiculous embarassments for our country.
Then, there was the lobbying ban, which sounded nice to some, and which Barry just ignored when making appointments.
Then, there was the idiotic idea of leaving the writing of the stimulus package to Nancy Pelosi. Unsurprisingly, she stuffed it full of wasteful and ill-considered non-stimulus provisions guaranteed to thwart Obama's efforts at bipartisanship.
Is this guy stupid, or what?
He's not fulfilling many promises, that's for sure. He promised to raise teacher quality and yet the tens of billions in the stimulus package for education include absolutely nothing with that aim. He promised a 4K credit for college tuition, which was too little and then could only find room for 2.5K in a trillion dollar spending spree. The list goes on.
Democrats wanted to believe a fairy tale: that they found a guy with absolutely no experience that was going to be a great president.
Instead, we get an alternative minimum presidency!
Over to you, Bea.
Sure, barryo. I can understand your sense of urgency that all the problems Bush/Cheney left us need to be corrected right away but you need to remember it took them 8 years to screw things up this badly.
As President Barack Obama said at his first press conference, I think my initial measure of success is creating or saving 4 million jobs. That's bottom line number one, because, if people are working, then they've got enough confidence to make purchases, to make investments. Businesses start seeing that consumers are out there with a little more confidence, and they start making investments, which means they start hiring workers. So step number one: job creation.
Step number two: Are we seeing the credit markets operate effectively? You know, I can't tell you how many businesses that I talk to that are successful businesses but just can't get credit.
Part of the problem in Elkhart that I heard about today was the fact that -- this is the R.V. [recreational vehicle] capital of America. You've got a bunch of R.V. companies that have customers who want to purchase R.V.s, but even though their credit is good, they can't get the loan.
Now, the businesses also can't get loans to make payments to their suppliers. But when they have consumers, consumers can't get the loans that they need. So normalizing the credit markets is, I think, step number two.
Step number three is going to be housing. Have we stabilized the housing market? Now, you know, the federal government doesn't have complete control over that, but if our plan is effective, working with the Federal Reserve Bank, working with the FDIC, I think what we can do is stem the rate of foreclosure and we can start stabilizing housing values over time.
And the most -- the -- the biggest measure of success is whether we stop contracting and shedding jobs and we start growing again.
Now, you know, I don't have a crystal ball. And as I said, this is an unprecedented crisis. But my hope is that after a difficult year -- and this year is going to be a difficult year -- that businesses start investing again, they start making decisions that, you know, in fact, there's money to be made out there, customers or consumers start feeling that their jobs are stable and safe, and they start making purchases again, and, if we get things right, then, starting next year, we can start seeing significant improvement.
barryo continued He's not fulfilling many promises,
Neither did Bush and I don't remember you complaining about it. In 2004 as he ran for reelection with half of his term completed, The Washington Post noted:
George W. Bush accepted the Republican presidential nomination in Philadelphia four summers ago with a speech packed full of ambitious campaign promises.
He would overhaul Medicare, Social Security and public education; cut taxes; reinvigorate the military; restore civility to the political system; and help the poor with tax credits for health insurance, assistance buying homes and charitable-giving incentives. "We will use these good times for great goals," he said. "We will confront the hard issues."
Thursday night, President Bush will accept the party's nomination for a second term here with a mixed record on those hard issues. On some -- tax cuts and education -- he made enormous progress toward his goals. On others -- Medicare, the military and his "compassion" agenda -- he made partial progress. And on the rest -- Social Security and attempting to "change the tone" of Washington -- nothing much has changed.
So after four years in office, Bush had yet to fulfill his many campaign promises. Obama's been working at correcting all the many Bush/Cheney problems for a month. Give it time.
What Bush/Cheney problems, Bea?
Bottom line is his actions are not inspiring confidence when he came in with such goodwill on his side.
It's not a matter of time, it's whether we even taking the first steps on the yellow brick road. We all know the Emerald City is a ways off but you've got to get on the road. We're not even headed in the right direction.
When your Treasury Secretary announces a plan to rescue the financial industry and our 401Ks promptly drop 5% and even the President's allies are howling, we're going in the wrong direction.
There's no one who believes that's George Bush's fault.
What Bush/Cheney problems, Bea?
You don't see any problems left for President Obama to clean up? You're happy with the way things are these day? Are you drinking the Kool-aid again?
Start with this problem leftover from the Bush/Cheney reign of error -- the lack of revenues coming into the federal budget to pay our bills (Iraq war debt, etc.) because of
1. tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts
2. job loss job loss job loss as noted on the green line on the graph above -- we're going straight down, which is "in the wrong direction." This is the biggest mess Bush/Cheney left for President Obama to clean up but far from the only. Others include a couple of wars, Katrina, corruption at the DOJ, etc.
Tell us exactly what you think a one day tick in the stock market is a valid indicator of.
There's no one who believes that's George Bush's fault.
Nice news dispatch from the Land of Oz, barryo-toto. Here's a little dose of reality for you.
Obama job approval rating = 62%
Bush's last approval rating = 22%
Michael Phelps is an endorsement darling, could he soon become the accidental poster boy for the "legalize marijuana" movement?
Kellogg's is experiencing backlash for dumping Phelps over his bong smoking photo that appeared in last Sunday's British tabloid, News of the World.
The cereal and snack manufacturer says Phelps' behavior was "not consistent with the image of [Kellogg's]." (Seth Meyers of SNL would beg to differ). Phelps' image already appears on boxes of Kellogg's Frosted Flakes and Corn Flakes, which are selling on ebay. (No recall yet).
As CNBC's Sports Biz columnist Darren Rovell points out, an organization called Marijuana Policy Project, a Washington, DC-based lobbying group with 26,000 members, is leading a boycott against Kellogg's, calling their treatment of Phelps "hypocritical and disgusting."
Rob Kampia, the executive director of MPP, told CNBC, "Kellogg's had no problem signing Phelps when he had a conviction for drunk driving (DUI in 2004), an illegal act that could actually have killed someone. To drop him for choosing to relax with a substance that's safer than beer is an outrage, and it sends a dangerous message to young people."
A Facebook page has already sprung up with over 6,000 members lashing out at Kellogg's for "criminalizing" Phelps.
Seth Meyers on SNL also gave the brand, popular among kids, a good ribbing and offered some advice to moms and dads, "Parents, if your kid says 'Michael Phelps smokes pot why can't I?' Just say, 'You can, right after you win twelve gold medals for your country.''"
The Phelps phenomenon could get swept up into another one buzzing through the blogosphere: legalizing marijuana to bring in tax revenue and to create jobs. If there's ever a time pot had a chance of becoming legal, it's right now. With jobs and businesses disappearing at an astonishing rate, why not legalize something that's already popular and widely used? (How do I know it's popular? How else would Seth Rogen have a career.)
After digging around, and thinking back to my sociology classes in college, here are some pretty enticing reasons to legalize marijuana:
It's estimated by a team of 500 economists, including Nobel laureate Milton Friedman, that taxing marijuana like alcohol and cigarettes could bring in $6.2 billion annually.
Job creation: farming, packaging, distribution, and of course, marketing--it's going to be a crowded playing field.
According to those 500 economists, in an open letter to 'the President, Congress, Governors, and State Legislatures', legalizing marijuana would save $7.7 billion in state and federal spending a year.
The criminals who sell drugs can be caught for not paying their
taxes. (It's how they finally nabbed Al Capone).
Legalizing it would create government jobs in the F.D.A. to ensure quality.
According to a report by ABC News two years ago, marijuana is a cash crop in the U.S. valued at $35.8 billion annually compared to $23.3 billion for corn and $7.5 billion for wheat. ( ABC News)
The government and private business might as well cash-in.
If you legalize it, there's a chance it won't be cool anymore. The Netherlands, where small amounts of marijuana are sold in coffee shops, have a lower rate of drug use for every kind of drug compared to the U.S.
Which do you think is more controversial: giving nearly a trillion tax-payer dollars to the banks that got us into the severest economic crisis since the Great Depression or legalizing marijuana?
Gallup reports Stimulus Support Edges Higher, Now 59%
PRINCETON, NJ -- Public support for an $800 billion economic stimulus package has increased to 59% in a USA Today/Gallup poll conducted Tuesday night, up from 52% in Gallup polling a week ago, as well as in late January.
Most of the newfound support comes from rank-and-file Democrats, suggesting President Barack Obama's efforts to sell the plan over the past week -- including in his first televised news conference on Monday -- have shored up support within his own party. Last week, Gallup found 70% of Democrats in favor of Congress passing the economic stimulus package, but today that figure is 82%.
Over the same period, support for the stimulus package held steady among independents, with a slight majority in favor of it. The percentage of Republicans favoring the package rose slightly from 24% to 28%, but remains below the 34% support received in early January, before Congress began its formal consideration of the package.
Economic Views Not Related to Stimulus Views
According to Gallup Poll Daily tracking from Feb. 8-10, only 11% of Americans consider U.S. economic conditions to be "excellent" or "good", while 29% call them "only fair", and 59% "poor." However, there is very little difference in support for the stimulus package among these groups of differing economic perceptions. The majority of all three groups favor Congress approving upward of $800 billion in economic stimulus programs.
Similarly, there is little difference in support for the plan according to Americans' personal financial situation. About a third of Americans tell Gallup they worried about money "yesterday" -- suggesting they are in a certain amount of financial distress. Accordingly, 63% of this attitudinal group favors passage of the plan. However, 58% of those who did not worry about money "yesterday" support the plan as well.
Bottom Line
Obama's salesmanship appears to have been effective in recent days, helping to build public support for the economic stimulus package, and thus push Congress to pass a final version by his desired Presidents Day deadline. At the least, he has stemmed any erosion of support in the face of some spirited conservative opposition. While most of the increase in support is among Democrats, the plan retains solid support from independents and has not lost any ground recently among Republicans.
Although the stimulus plan is purportedly being passed to address the nation's economic problems, Americans' perceptions of the economy -- and of their own personal financial situations -- have little bearing on their support for it. Political orientation is the overriding factor...
"Start with this problem leftover from the Bush/Cheney reign of error -- the lack of revenues coming into the federal budget to pay our bills (Iraq war debt, etc.) because of
1. tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts"
Well, Obama is planning to cut taxes even more so he's apparently not concerned. Tax cuts are the only proven method of stimulating the economy.
"2. job loss job loss job loss as noted on the green line on the graph above -- we're going straight down, which is "in the wrong direction." This is the biggest mess Bush/Cheney left for President Obama to clean up but far from the only."
Most of the jobs have been lost since Obama was elected. There's no confidence that he will solve our problems so everyone is being cautious and economic activity is depressed, leading to lay-offs. The economy is mostly psychological and Obama is another downer like Jimmy Carter.
"Others include a couple of wars,"
Bush won the Iraq war and gave Obama a gift by making it easy for him to begin pulling out. Afghanistan is still a work in process but it's not Bush's fault al qaeda attacked us and we've had more success there than most other countries have had.
"Katrina,"
The ayatolah used to blame the CIA for natural disasters and now Dems blame Bush. Interesting convergence of thought.
"corruption at the DOJ, etc."
Obama has had more corruption among his nominees than Bush did his whole two terms.
"Tell us exactly what you think a one day tick in the stock market is a valid indicator of."
Tells us that investors believe Geithner's plan is worthless.
"There's no one who believes that's George Bush's fault.
Here's a little dose of reality for you.
Obama job approval rating = 62%
Bush's last approval rating = 22%"
If you'll read again, Bea, and you should make a habit of rereading, with your deficient comprehension skills, you'll find that i was referring to the reaction to Geithner's plan.
Since you brought it up, however, Bush's approval rating a few weeks after his inauguration was higher than Obama's is now.
update:
jobless claims are down this week compared to last week
and that's without any stimulus
that's without any stimulus
Right. Now that the House and Senate seem to have settled their differences, that uptick in jobs is based on the hope that the promise of President Barack Obama's stimulus package is coming.
Tax cuts are the only proven method of stimulating the economy.
Oh really? Then please explain how it is we've just come off of eight years of Bush/Cheney tax cuts and this economy is anything but stimulated.
Bush won the Iraq war and gave Obama a gift by making it easy for him to begin pulling out. Afghanistan is still a work in process but it's not Bush's fault al qaeda attacked us
Iraq has not been "won" -- the Green Zone has been turned over to the Iraqis and Saddam has been killed but we still read articles about Strings of bombings. As of January 28, 2009, news reports still inform us that Iraqis are weary. Electricity, water and other basic services are still scant
And just yesterday there were coordinated attacks by the Taliban in Kabul. Why? Because we left Afghanistan before we finished the job there to search for noexistent WMD
barryo continued The ayatolah used to blame the CIA for natural disasters and now Dems blame Bush. Interesting convergence of thought.
Oh brother, I'm not blaming him for the storm but for the "heckuva job" he and Brownie did cleaning up after it and housing all those surviving displaced residents in toxic trailers. As usual, the Bush clean up was a quick patch job and the real clean up has been left undone.
Most of the jobs have been lost since Obama was elected.
If you think that line of argument is going to work you are farther gone than anyone knew. Try "most of the jobs have been lost during the Bush/Cheney lame duck period and because of their more-money-for-our-rich-cronies policies." Speaking of rich cronies, did you hear KBR (part of Cheney's Halliburton) was awarded another reconstruction project contract even though their other reconstruction there has resulted in criminal investigations into the electrocution of at least one US soldier.
Obama has had more corruption among his nominees than Bush did his whole two terms.
You may as well go for the bold lie, huh barryo? Harpers reports:
This [Bush/Cheney] administration did more than commit crimes. It waged war against the law itself. It transformed the Justice Department into a vehicle for voter suppression, and it also summarily dismissed the U.S. attorneys who attempted to investigate its wrongdoing. It issued wartime contracts to substandard vendors with inside connections, and it also defunded efforts to police their performance. It spied on church groups and political protesters, and it also introduced a sweeping surveillance program that was so clearly illegal that virtually the entire senior echelon of the Justice Department threatened to (but did not in fact) tender their resignations over it. It waged an illegal and disastrous war, and it did so by falsely representing to Congress and to the American public nearly every piece of intelligence it had on Iraq. And through it all, as if to underscore its contempt for any authority but its own, the administration issued more than a hundred carefully crafted “signing statements” that raised pervasive doubt about whether the president would even accede to bills that he himself had signed into law.
No prior administration has been so systematically or so brazenly lawless.
I'd say it's a slam dunk, Bush/Cheney wins the corruption/criminal contest!
Bush's approval rating a few weeks after his inauguration was
higher than Obama's is now.
Wake up barryo, those days are long gone. In early 2001, the nation hoped Bush would be a compassionate conservative and unite the country but after 8 years of enduring his "my way or the highway" governing philosophy, large majorities of Americans now disapprove.
Bea, you're so deluded.
The Bush tax cuts are widely seen as successful. Not only was the mild Clinton recession thwarted, our economy absorbed years of shocks from 9/11 to Katrina that would have crippled any other country without so much as a shudder.
If the Keynesian approach that appears ready to be enacted goes into law, we'll see the result. In the early 60s, there was a resurgence of Keynesianism that resulted in LBJ's "Great Society". The result, a dozen years later was an infamous triple digit misery index that ended Jimmy Carter's presidency after one term.
Reagan ended that with his radical marginal tax rate cut and capital gains cut. The result, a dozen years later was a resurgent America with growth unparalleled in our economic history. It continued until the last few months.
Even our new, Ivy League, Keynesian President has conceded that our present difficulties were the result of governmental tinkering in the housing market. The idea that we can keep tinkering until we get it right is counter-intuitive and, while we're at it, wrong.
You seem to think I should wake up because the early days of Bush's presidency had a higher approval rating than Obama enjoys now? I guess nothing as silly as facts can destroy your delusions but there is no reason as yet to believe Obama will wear well. He's basically bombed every assignment so far.
This ongoing 'big lie' message that the current economic difficulties are the result of government invervention in the housing market (led, for some obtuse reason, by Barney Frank) is simply wrong. The Wall Street and financial bubble, whose collapse trashed the economy, was the creation by financial 'golden boys' of arcane and complex financial instruments which no one understood, and whose real risks no one could truly estimate, and the utter lack of governmental oversight of these monetary fictions.
Completely unregulated markets, as we had in this country until the 20th century, brought periods of growth interspersed with very painful and severe busts. Unregulated markets are like loose cannons on a pitching deck in a hurricane; not a good idea.
rrjr
Our financial markets aren't "completely unregulated" as you say, Robert.
I'm surprised you would start by accusing someone of lying and then tell one yourself.
The "financial instruments no one understood" were subprime mortgages and the risk was obscured by governmental intervention.
Economies worldwide with all varying degrees of regulation have experienced the same situation.
We should be more discriminating about who we let head up our Congressional oversight committees.
I heard a good quote the other day about this stimulus package. I can't remember who said it, but it went something like this:
Imagine our economy is a patient going into cardiac arrest. To assist the dying patient, the doctors and nurses rush out to buy the patient a new wardrobe!
The implosion of the Obama administration continued today with the another withdrawal by a nominee.
Commerce Secretary-nominee Judd Gregg quit because Obama was pressuring him to monkey with the upcoming census to favor Democratic interests.
Maybe it's time for Obama to consider withdrawing himself!
I hardly think its an implosion. Come on now, don't you think you are over reaching there. Judd choose to resign (after pushing for the job). In light of the fact that President Obama has two other Republicans in his administration, I don't see this as being a big deal. Especially when one considers the victory he is about to get regarding the stimulus package.
Oh yeah, I was over reaching, Alvin. I just do that to counteract the Obama hype from these deadhead hippies here in Monkey County.
Living down in South Carolina, you have no idea what it's like to live amongst so many flakes. It's like a blizzard around here.
Hope you're getting to some Gamecock b-ball games. I think they're going places this year.
btw, Obama's "victory" will be pyhric (sp?); it won't work and that won't be a victory
I do enjoy our conversations sometimes anonymous, but your attempts at humor leave me cold. Debate the issues and not the personalities regardless of how you feel the other side is acting.
BTW - I support President Obama ;p
"Debate the issues and not the personalities"
I've often suggested that, Alvin, but your buddies won't agree.
You may not have been watching long enough to know the chicken from the egg.
Here's barryo demonstrating a stunning ability to discuss the issues:
Bea, you're so deluded.
You think so? Not me. IMHO the one who asked What Bush/Cheney problems, Bea?, the one who apparently thinks we are enjoying a happy days period of "peace and prosperity" at the end of the Bush/Cheney error right now, is the one who's deluded.
President Obama has rolled up his shirt sleeves and is working on cleaning up the huge mess, the recession and busted government Bush/Cheney left for us all. Wishing for him to fail is unpatriotic, partisan, and petty.
We hope someday you'll join us, and the world will live as one.
When I said you were deluded I was mentioning something specific, namely your ignorance about basic developments in economic theory in the last quarter century. Tax cuts are an efficient way to stimulate the economy, increased governmental spending is not. Keynesian economics is a theory that has always failed.
You, on the other hand, are never specific. The "mess", the "busted government", ...
When I asked what problems, I was looking for some specifics not denying that there are problems. Your responses confirmed that you don't know what you're talking about but simply repeating the phrases you've heard in soundbites on TV.
Rolling up his shirtsleeves? Is that what you call it when he let's Nancy Pelosi devise his stimulus package and neglects to check out his nominations before he makes them?
You think we've got problems now?
Just wait til we look back in 2012.
Funny how you complain about Bush's "my way or the highway" philosophy and then accuse opposition to Obama's idiocy of being unpatriotic. It would actually be unpatriotic to not speak up when we see our country heading in the wrong direction.
The Republicans who opposed the President provided a service of restraint on the excesses of the radical Dem-controlled Congress. Obama couldn't do it himself so he should thank the Republicans.
Maybe throw 'em a cocktail party or something...
The specific problems are obvious barryo, yet you need them recapped? OK, here's a few off the top of my head.
Bush/Cheney left us hemorrhaging more than half a million jobs every month
Bush/Cheney left us facing a $1.2 trillion deficit with more targeted spending and tax cuts needed to stem the hemorrhaging noted above
Bush/Cheney did nothing to stem global warming, which is melting the ice caps and changing weather patterns
Bush/Cheney left us dependent on foreign oil for our energy needs
Bush/Cheney decimated the Civil Rights division of the DOJ
Bush/Cheney left us with more families and individuals living below the poverty level now than in 2000
Bush/Cheney left us with fewer families and individuals with health insurance coverage now than in 2000
Bush/Cheney left us with ailing infrastruction from collapsing highway bridges to bursting water mains
Now tell us how tax cuts ALONE will fix the problems Bush/Cheney left us with.
You should lay off the cocktails and bongs, they are not helpful.
Pyrrhic, after King Pyrrhus of Epirus (more or less modern-day Albania, and Northwestern Greece).
rrjr
Funny how you complain about Bush's "my way or the highway" philosophy and then accuse opposition to Obama's idiocy of being unpatriotic.
I made no such accusation, you should watch out for your tendency to misunderstand my statements you read and to put words in my mouth. I said "President Obama has rolled up his shirt sleeves and is working on cleaning up the huge mess, the recession and busted government Bush/Cheney left for us all. Wishing for him to fail is unpatriotic, partisan, and petty."
Maybe you call "wishing for [Obama] to fail" and "oppoostion to Obama" the same thing. I don't, because if Obama fails to correct the mess Bush/Cheney made of our economy, we are all going down. Unlike his "my way or the highway" predecessor, the White House reached out to Republicans before and during the process of discussing and approving President Obama's stimulus package. And even though the GOP would rather play politics than help him help the American people deal with job loss, foreclosures, loss of health insurance coverage and unemployment benefits, etc., President Obama will continue to reach out for them to join him. We know this because he told us during in his first press conference as the first African American President of the United States of America. When asked about his failure to get one GOP House member to vote for his stimulus package even though he had reached out for bipartisanship coordination and incorporated their ideas for tax cuts into it, President Obama said: ...the American people underestimated it {partisanship]. They understand that there have been a lot of bad habits built up here in Washington and it's going to take time to break down some of those bad habits.
You know, when I made a series of overtures to the Republicans -- going over to meet with both Republican caucuses; you know, putting three Republicans in my Cabinet, something that is unprecedented; making sure that they were invited here to the White House to talk about the economic recovery plan -- all those were not designed simply to get some short-term votes. They were designed to try to build up some trust over time. And I think that as I continue to make these overtures, over time hopefully that will be reciprocated.
But understand the bottom line that I've got right now, which is what's happening to the people of Elkhart and what's happening across the country. I can't afford to see Congress play the usual political games. What we have to do right now is deliver for the American people.
So far 3 GOP Senators have joined him to bring relief to the millions of us who are out of work and in danger of losing our homes, and I predict that more GOP officials will see the error of Rove's petty ways and decide to work for the good of the county, across partisan lines.
"if Obama fails to correct the mess Bush/Cheney made of our economy, we are all going down"
What you have failed to demonstrate is what exactly Bush did to make a "mess" of our economy. You have alluded to tax cuts but Obama is planning to outdo Bush on that. Deficits? Obama's not making any change there.
Granted Bush did go Democratic by setting up a new prescription drug entitlement and allowing Barney Frank to tinker with our housing market, but that's sure not something Obama's planning to change.
When Bush took office, we were in a recession caused by the Clinton administration's irresponsible surpluses. Keynesians believe the government should spend a lot of money, even if it has to be borrowed. Supply-siders believed money should be funnelled to private sources who will spend the money more efficiently. No one believes we should tax people more than the government is planning to spend and thus drain economic activity. No one except Bea who trumpets this over-taxation as a triumph of Clintonism.
So, you say well Obama's only cutting taxes and increasing the deficit because of the mess Bush made.
You could easily say the same about Bush who had to spend money to counter the crises caused by Clinton slashing our military spending and ignoring world problems while preoccupied with his own impeachment troubles.
You have alluded to tax cuts but Obama is planning to outdo Bush on that.
You got that right, barryo. Obama will outdo Bush in every way. On tax cuts, instead of most of them going to only the top few percentage points of wage earners, Obama's tax cuts will put money into the hands of more than 90% of Americans, into the hand of people who will spend it on food, clothes, etc., spending that keep businesses in business.
Deficits? Obama's not making any change there.
Like he has a choice. Do you want him to raise taxes or borrow the money needed to invest in the USA to get her back on her feet again? Bush/Cheney left the economy so wrecked that doing nothing is not an option. Spending is the only thing that will get us out of a recession this deep. Since Bush/Cheney destroyed the rainy day fund Clinton and his GOP Congress had socked away, money needed to boost the economy has to be borrowed. Bush/Cheney did their best to starve government and drown it in the bathtub, but what they apparently did not foresee is that they'd take the economy down with them.
When Bush took office, we were in a recession...
Yes, there was a relatively minor recession represented by the red curve on the graph above when Bush came into office. The 2001 recession (curved red line) was very different from the free falling straight green line showing where what's going on today. Bush/Cheney outdid both Clinton and DaddyBush, as they managed to create the deepest economic meltdown since the depression.
Post a Comment
<< Home