Nothing wrong with pointing out that you are failing to live up to the standard you have claimed for yourself. You lied, that's not nice. You claim you only speak when spoken to, so its time for you to live up to your claim - never post a comment again unless someone specifically asks you for comment. Your bible commands you not to lie, stop spitting all over it.
what causes suspicion is not Obama's race but these facts:
1. his father was not American 2. his stepfather was not American 3. his mother married multiple times but never to an American 4. he received some of his education in other countries 5. he spent much of his youth outside the Continental U.S. 6. his original birth certificate has not been seen by the public 7. his Kenyan grandmother, who has never been to the U.S., says she attended his birth
Its amazing how many Americans are getting to hell out of the enlightened Northeast, and flocking to the South. What do you make of THAT?
..... I made the mistake before of thinking JimK was a fringe element of our society. The last 2 election cycles have taught me that there are a lot more people like him out there that I had expected. And that while someone who thinks like him would be an aberration in my Red State society, he is relatively close to his regional norm........ disgusting to say the least, but no more so than many of the others around him are.
But I think y'all are making the same mistake I did when you dismiss all these well-dressed white protesters showing up at, and disrupting, town hall meetings as being a insurance lobby supported right-wing fringe astroturf tools.
You're too enveloped in your regional progressive cocoon to realize just how accurately these Tea baggers reflect the sentiment on the streets outside of your neighborhoods.
You might be able to convince yourselves that these folks are acting on orders from the RNC and K-Street lobbyists, but the ones out there actually doing it know better. Dismiss their concerns at your own peril.
..... these were folks that were probably too busy working to attend protest rallies till Obama's economic policies gave them some free time on their hands. I bet there's not a single one of them that likes the Heath Insurance industry. I bet most of them are just as hostile to Republican politicians as they are Democrats. Its not a partisan thing. Its not a single issue thing. Its people who are fed up with people like you in government. Its people who dont want to be taxed to pay for someone else's healthcare or housing any more than y'all would have liked it if Bush had enacted a new tax to pay for the war in Iraq.
JimK has conditioned himself to ignore the call of the southern blood that runs through his veins. But I think he seems so concerned about these conservative rallies cause he knows how quick this could change the direction of the nation. How quick this could get real ugly.
If so, I think he's right for a change. If these folks cant find satisfaction at the ballot box in the next couple of election cycles.......... they're going to rock your world.
There are two "RT's" who comment here, I have the distinct feeling this is "Redneck Texan," and not "Real Teacher." RT, as you know, both my parents are Texans, I grew up in Goldwater's Arizona, I played Southern Rock in North Carolina and country-rock in Alaska, I've been in more than half the states in the country, and I am well aware of life as it exists outside the effete Eastern megalopolis fishbowl.
You're right that ugly sentiment can spread quickly through the red areas of the country, I wouldn't deny that. On the other hand, RT, you have to admit that the idea that Obama was not born in the US is ... crazy. The recent fake birth certificate that WND and Free Republic were so excited about shows you just how crazy this is, they are desperate for anything to support them, that is not rational thinking. They can't stand the fact that Obama won the election and is now running things, and they will say and do anything to convince themselves that it didn't really happen.
Any reasonable person looking at the situation sees what's happening. This crazy idea resonates with those who are so disappointed that a black guy, a liberal, an articulate brainy person, a Democrat, is President, and so they adopt this crazy story about him being born in Kenya as a fact, in spite of all evidence. There is no sense in denying the social reality of the belief contagion, but there is no sense in accepting the belief.
Oh, and I don't think the people are acting on orders from RNC or K Street, directly. They are acting on orders from rightwing talk radio, from Limbaugh and Hannity and Beck and the others, who are getting their talking points from ... somewhere. It is not like a bunch of independent thinkers, observing the facts, came to the same conclusion individually. The birther fiction, the "socialist" meme, are propagated in the mass media. The idea that the teabaggers are a bunch of rugged individualists, thinking for themselves, is a self-serving falsehood, they are sheep and you know it.
In my opinion, if the Republican Party is going to build its base on ignorance and sheepish flocking toward whatever Rush and Sean and Glenn say, then they are bound to fail in the long run. Or, as this graph implies, maybe the GOP will survive in the South only; that will get you Southern Republicans in Congress and Republican governors in a handful of states, but never the White House.
Oh, the Republicans will do very well in the Plains and Midwest and Rocky Mountains.
Even places like New Jersey will always be looking for an alternative.
The chance that Dems will retain the governor's seat this fall in NJ is slim.
And to think, that Dem disaster began with a New Jersey governor who decided he was a "gay American".
Remember, minorities, especially African Americans are the core of the Democratic Party, and those majorities are apt to become alienated over the Dembrace of the gay agenda and the kowtowing to the teachers' unions by blocking school choice programs that benefit disadvantaged kids.
The fuse is burning.
It was lit by Demselves and the they are holding the political time-bomb.
That's a great map, but without the underlying data, it's subject to misinterpretation. How many of those who move from the NE to the South (the largest group on the map) are retirees moving to Florida? Don't assume they're moving South to join the racist birther movement.
Dismiss their concerns at your own peril.
What's interesting is that the main concern these mobs express at the town hall meetings they attend to disrupt is that they do not want a government sponsored "socialist" healthcare policy. But when the Democratic Congressperson they target gets to ask for a show of hands of how many there are on Medicare, it starts to sink in. Most of our retirees rely on Medicare to survive old age's health challenges. If they manage to ban all "socialist" government funded programs, they will be hard pressed to afford their own medications and to see their own doctors.
You might be able to convince yourselves that these folks are acting on orders from the RNC and K-Street lobbyists, but the ones out there actually doing it know better.
Nice spin RT. Nobody said they're under "orders" but we see who is publicizing town halls and urging disruptions at them. You should try facing some facts. Here are several facts that Rachel Maddow's researchers have uncovered:
In terms of the origins of these protests, a big portion of the media continues, I think, to miss the obvious. D.C. lobbying groups with ties to the health care industry have not only been organizing these events, these made-for-YouTube ambushes, they also have been taking credit for them.
Meet Conservatives for Patients' Rights. It's a Washington, D.C.-based lobbying organization that's run by a former hospital executive named Rick Scott. Rick Scott was actually forced out of the health care company amid a fraud investigation that ultimately resulted in the company paying a $1.7 billion fine.
Well, now, Rick Scott's Conservatives for Patients' Rights is e-mailing out town hall alert flyers and e-mailing out spreadsheets about where town hall meetings are so that they can be targeted by activists on the right. Here's their Web site today, for example, prominently featuring a long list of congressional town hall meetings.
This is a health care industry-linked lobbying group organizing uprisings at town hall events. And if you check out other groups linked to Washington, D.C. lobbying firms, like FreedomWorks, for example, can you find your instructions about how best to shout down and intimidate any possibility of civil discourse at these events. So that corporate lobbying groups are doing their part-they're turning out the mobs, telling them where to go and giving them their scripts.
And now, elected Republicans in Washington are doing their part, too endorsing this strategy. The top Republican in the House, John Boehner, has released a statement approving of the disruption of the town halls, crowing over the, quote, "angry reception" given to Congressman Lloyd Doggett and promising a, quote, "long, hot August for Democrats."
And the National Republican Campaign Committee is now publicizing these disruptions in a new series of e-mails entitled "Recess Roastings." They're promoting and sharing the fact that town hall events have, in their words, turned into town hells for Democrats. Town halls, huh, they're town hells now. This message brought to you by the modern Republican Party.
Every American should compare the price and quality of private (bottled) water to public (what the government provides to your tap) to get an idea of what publicly funded healthcare can do for you.
The idea that the teabaggers are a bunch of rugged individualists, thinking for themselves, is a self-serving falsehood, they are sheep and you know it.
They're the sheep that keep the grocery shelves in Montgomery County stocked with food too. What would y'all do without them?
..... I think the health care debate hit a brick wall once Northern Union employees realized that the gold-plated insurance policies they had fought so hard to get were going to be in play with reform. Flirting with socialism was all fun and games as long as it was all about soaking the rich, but once it stated looking like their capitalistic trappings could be in jeopardy, it exposed the fault between the true believers in the Democratic party and those just looking for the best benefits package.
The whole debate, to me, boils down to "do Americans have a fundamental right to Health Care?"...... and the answer is NO, we dont. No more than we have a right to "Fair Housing", or affordable transportation. But apparently it doesn't matter what the Constitution says, once you garner a electoral majority that think it is, it will be. To hell with those that interpret the role of our government the way the founder's intended.
And the best way to stem the flow of Northerners from the self-destructive policies generations of Democrats have produced in the Northeast, is to force the south to become equally dysfunctional ....... look for these 10th amendment sovereignty declarations in Southern State legislatures to grow into a unified anti-Federal movement if the unemployment rate doesn't rebound by the end of Obama's single term. If the Fed's cut off the tax returns for non-compliance with DC's universal socialistic agenda, then you better start stocking up on groceries.
Was Obama born in America? Hell, I dont know. I'm going to assume he was till I see plausible evidence that he wasn't. But being as familiar as I am with how skilled the local immigrant workforce is in document forgery, including forged birth certificates, I am not prepared to totally discount the possibility that Obama's mother, given her documented exploits and travels, could have done exactly what I know for a fact many others have. I do think the vetting process for future candidate's citizenship needs to be a little better documented to meet the requirements of the Constitution.
But getting back to the tea-baggers..... it doesn't really matter whether they are sheep or not..... or whether they're racists or not ..... it only matters how far they're willing to go to protect the fabric of their societies from the likes of your kind. You think their going to eventually accept their marginalization? Do you think the socialistic policies that are being crammed down their throats today are going to prove them wrong as some point in the near future? I dont see it happening. I think they might play by the rules a little longer, but if at some point they realize they can never win again within the framework of the rules..... they'll change the rules on your ass.
btw..... you neglected to mention why you thought Americans are in mass migration away from the centers of Generational Democratic control, and into the relatively more robust, and less regulated, economies the simple minded southerners have created for themselves. I figured a man in your position would know the answer to that.
Hey RT, that was pretty good. First, the idea that government should not be responsible to provide health care, fine, that's a conservative position and can easily be argued without shouting the speaker down and rattling him. It's a good point and might win in a debate. Or might not. I've got no beef with someone holding that position, which I disagree with -- I do have a problem with thugs going out deliberately to intimidate and disrupt, when as you just demonstrated there is actually a case to be made.
As for the migration, I thought somebody else handled that all right already. New York City retires and moves to Florida. Have you ever been there? You don't hear a lot of Southern accents in the cities along the coast, you might say.
And as for the sheep being good hard-working people, again you've got a good point, and remember those are my people as much as yours. But they are being persuaded to go against their own self-interest, they are letting themselves be led along by arguments that are irrational on the surface and that result in profit for the rich and unemployment for the working class. They may be working too hard to read every article, they may be a little undereducated to follow the complicated maneuvering of the insurance companies, the pharmaceutical companies, the insurance companies, but like you I believe their hearts are in the right place. They're good people, their way of life deserves to be protected, but these days they are listening to the wrong people -- people who do not have their interests in mind.
Woops. Those second insurance companies were, uh, different from the first insurance companies ... I should have said "other insurance companies" ... or as I intended, "oil companies."
The result of the demographic movement from the snowbelt to the sunbelt is not, as RT would like to think, an increase in the conservatism of the country. Rather, it is causing, and will continue to cause, a liberalization of the south. Witness Virginia and North Carolina.
In the above, RT manages to insult Obama by associating his mother with illegal immigrants, then insulting immigrants.
The result of the demographic movement from the snowbelt to the sunbelt is not, as RT would like to think, an increase in the conservatism of the country. Rather, it is causing, and will continue to cause, a liberalization of the south. Witness Virginia and North Carolina.
I am certainly not suggesting that people are migrating to the south to be among Conservatives.
I am not suggesting they come here for the 105 degree Summers either. I dont see many retirees from NYC round' here.
The ones I know came here looking for gainful employment and a better quality of life for themselves and their children. They apparently could not find either back home.
Corporations are relocating here to get away from the tax and regulation burdens imposed upon them by Democratic controlled State and Local Governments. Or in some cases to get away from unreasonable environmental regulations out west.
What I actually did suggest is that political forces originating in the regions losing skilled constituents to the south have a vested interest in seeing the Federal government universally impose the taxes and regulations that chased the people and corporations out of their districts, to take away the migrants better options.
Whats sad is, your right, once they get registered to vote down here, they tend to fall back on their generational ideological conditioning and vote blue. The appeal of the promises of a socialistic utopia must remain strong even after you witness the economic results of it.
But those people too tend to congregate in our urban counties ...... those tiny blue dots in an otherwise endless sea of red on our electoral map...... They need groceries too. Its going to be pretty easy to choke them off from the outlying supplies.
Maybe after a few days of empty grocery shelves you will start to see further divisions of the Democrat's big tent base. ;-)
Without us city folk to buy their goods, they'll have plenty to fatten up on but no still healthcare out there in those vast vacant endless seas of red...
Jim: You are correct. I am the original RT (short for Retired Teacher). I was given that particular sobriquet by one of the CRCers a while back when the curriculum issues were what this blog site was about and I decided to use that as a short-hand way of identifying myself. The new "RT" who has been posting under my i.d. (he, of the "anonymous" zillions posts) is about as far away from my political beliefs as possible so I abjure his appropriation of my i.d. and encourage him to develop some sense of ethics and morality when he posts his drivel here and find a new identification. Retired Teacher (the original R.T.)
Okay, RT, I thought that was "real" but it's "retired teacher." This other RT is somebody I have known in the blogosphere for many years. He and I see everything exactly opposite, but we have been friends online for a long time.
He doesn't comment here very often, so it's not usually an issue. RT from Texas, you have used "Arty" before, would you mind using that here so we don't mix up our RT's?
Sure..... I was trying to avoid the Google spider.
..... which you entirely screwed up anyway.
I never really planned to migrate out of this thread anyway..... and I'm trying to wrap this one up.
I only came out of the lurking shadows to reinforce your fears of the growing anger on the Redneck street. Something's really goin' on out there dude. This is uncharacteristic behavior from the normally silent majority. These are not professional protesters, these are people taking off from work for the first time because they are fed up. If the left counter-protests these meetings as planned later this month....... people could get hurt..... this could escalate in a hurry. How far I dont know. These sheep, as you call them, might run from the brown-shirted ACORN stooges...... and they might not.
I'm not suggesting they represent a majority of the mainstream conservatives, but any student of history will tell you you dont need a majority to win a revolution ....... you just got to be more determined.
Yes, there is something goin[g] on out there, dude. White mobs are rising up against the policies of change proposed by the first black President of the United States that the majority of Americans voted for and embrace. The mobs prefer the status quo. Let them cling to their precious status quo.
The rest of us are going to enact the change we voted for, with or without their input and participation.
"Rep. Todd Akin (R-Mo.), at a town hall Tuesday, crowed that Democratic lawmakers returning to their home districts "almost got lynched," by angry town hall protesters. His remark got applause from the crowd" and laughter.
HERE IN YOUR BELTWAY BUBBLE, YOU MAY NOT REALIZE IT BUT PEOPLE IN THE HEARTLAND ARE IN TROUBLE ECONOMICALLY WHILE CONGRESS FLIRTS WITH CREATING A HUGE NEW ENTITLEMENT THAT EVERYONE AGREES WILL RAISE TAXES
PEOPLE VOTED FOR SOMEONE TO CHANGE THINGS FOR THE BETTER AND THEY GOT A LAZY PRESIDENT WHO IS LETTING NANCY PELOSI DO ALL THE HEAVY LIFTING
People are angry because the President is doing nothing to go after the trial lawyers, like the sleazy John Edwards, who cause most of the health care increases
actually, people are angry because the President is doing nothing, period
malpractice reform needs to happen and we need to find a way to stop sending so much of our health care money to trial lawyers, like the sleazy John Edwards, a former Democrat VP nominee
For all the back and forth about the “public option,” Congressional Budget Office estimates and proposed tax hikes, the fundamentals are really what make health-care reform a hard sell to American voters.
As members of Congress head home for the August recess, they should take a close look at some poll numbers before they attempt to pass any new legislation.
The most important fundamental is that 68% of American voters have health-insurance coverage they rate good or excellent.
That number comes from polling conducted this past weekend of 1,000 likely voters.
Most of these voters approach the health-care reform debate fearing that they have more to lose than to gain.
Adding to President Barack Obama’s challenge as he sells health-care reform to the public is the fact that most voters are skeptical about the government’s ability to do anything well.
While the president says his plan will reduce costs, 53% believe it will have the opposite effect.
There’s also the reality that 74% of voters rate the quality of care they now receive as good or excellent.
And 50% fear that if Congress passes health-care reform, it will lead to a decline in the quality of that care.
Advocates of health-care reform on Capitol Hill are up against something bigger than voters’ reactions to a variety of specific proposals.
Our polling in February found that by a 2-1 margin, voters believe that no matter how bad things are Congress can always make matters worse.
That’s one reason 78% believe passage of the current congressional health-care proposals is likely to mean higher taxes for the middle class.
63% of voters agreed with the president earlier this year when he said, “We must make it a priority to give every single American quality affordable health care.”
Yet while they agree in theory, only 28% are currently willing to pay higher taxes to achieve that goal.
Those opposed to Mr. Obama’s reform appear to have momentum on their side.
Polling last weekend showed that 48% of voters rate the U.S. health-care system as good or excellent.
That’s up from 35% in May and up from 29% a year ago.
Only 19% now rate the system as poor, down from 37% a year ago.
It appears that the prospect of changing health care has made the existing system look better to a lot of people.
Beyond the intensity of the opposition and its momentum, there is also a huge partisan gap that puts congressional Democrats in a very difficult position.
Currently, 76% of Democratic voters favor the health-care reform plan proposed by Mr. Obama and the congressional Democrats, and they are counting on their representatives to deliver.
But delivering for the Democratic base has the potential to hurt the party’s standing among independents.
Among the unaffiliated, 35% are in favor of the Democrats’ health-care reform initiative, and 60% are opposed.
Notably, just 16% of unaffiliated voters strongly favor the legislative effort; 47% strongly oppose it.
As the Democrats scramble to pass a health-care reform bill by the fall, they appear to have two choices.
One is to stick with the broad outlines of the plan that has been laid out by various congressional committees.
Those proposals would be well received within the party, but will cause some angst beyond it.
The other option would be to pass smaller scale reform and declare victory.
That approach would probably be well received by voters in the middle, but create turmoil within the party.
In political terms, the most important reality will be how the reform affects the 68% who say they have good or excellent health-insurance coverage.
If they end up having to change their coverage, pay significantly higher taxes, or encounter some other unpleasant reality, congressional Democrats will look back on this August as a time when they should have listened more closely to the folks back home.
SHOUTING ANON -- If you'd like me to address your comments, you will lower your voice. But I will say this: Nancy Pelosi has been Speaker of the House since 2006. Get over it.
People are angry because the President is doing nothing to go after the trial lawyers
Well, it's going to be a long seven and a half years for you!
And WTG Anon! You showed the author of your cut and paste of "polling conducted this past weekend," which lends credence to the idea that you **can** teach old dogs new tricks.
"The Rasmussen Consumer Index, which measures the economic confidence of consumers on a daily basis, jumped over three points on Friday to 77.9 to the highest level in 11 months. The last time confidence was this high came just before the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the beginning of federal bailouts. The Consumer Index is up four points over the past week, up eight points over the past month, and up 18 points from the beginning of 2009..."
Great news, huh? President Obama's economic policies have raised the Consumer Index 18 points since January!
Let's hear it for that good ol' American spirit -- yes we can!
1981-2006 in America was the greatest economic expansion in history.
That **expansion** created the housing bubble, that, according to Fortune Magazine began bursting in May 2006. Democrats didn't take over the House until January 2007.
What's bizarre is that you think the GOP and their health insurance company backers are thwarting anything with their townhall disruptions. Banging fists, chanting "JUST SAY NO," and Crazy Eileens grasping onto conspiracy theories while crying they want their good ol' boy run country back isn't working. It's making them look like dangerous crazed losers.
Republicans don't hold enough seats to thwart Congress. Their hot air is just turning townhall meetings into free-for-alls where no real meeting and certainly no rational discussion takes place. In fact, every Democratic Freshman whose town hall meeting has been disrupted by the GOP/health industry mobs has said it's only made their resolve to pass publicly funded healthcare stronger.
Scream about it all you want. The times they are changing and the change we voted for in November is coming.
The Crazy Eileens lost the election. Now they're losing their minds.
I do agree with Lou Dobbs, however, that Obama could and should have put this baby to bed long ago.
There's probably some reason Obama doesn't want his original birth certificate seen or his grandmother interviewed but it may well be a problem other than place of residence.
44 Comments:
Jim, Jim
the South is the fastest growing area of the country
before Obama, all of the Democrats elected President since the Beatles started the British invasion were Southerners
overall, 23% of Americans aren't sure if Obama was born here
that's 70 million
it's more than a fringe
steps need to be taken to address their concerns
Bad anonymous, you said you only speak when spoken to - no one was addressing you so its time for you to shut up.
priya, you should delete that comment
it's not nice
let me know if you can't figure out how to delete
Nothing wrong with pointing out that you are failing to live up to the standard you have claimed for yourself. You lied, that's not nice. You claim you only speak when spoken to, so its time for you to live up to your claim - never post a comment again unless someone specifically asks you for comment. Your bible commands you not to lie, stop spitting all over it.
"Anonymous" - hope that you will practice that "delete" function several times on yourself before you recommend it to others!
Oh, I'm just playing with Priya.
She has a psychological defect that causes her to post comments and then immediately delete them.
She's had some reparative therapy but that just causes her to igonre her problem.
Deep down, she's still oriented to deletion.
It's real clear who is suffering from psychological defects, Anon. You make it clear almost every day.
really, Anon-B?
how?
This graph shows that the birthers are racists.
no, it doesn't
Perhaps the graph shows that racists are birthers.
no, it doesn't show that either
that's just another malicious liberal allegation
what causes suspicion is not Obama's race but these facts:
1. his father was not American
2. his stepfather was not American
3. his mother married multiple times but never to an American
4. he received some of his education in other countries
5. he spent much of his youth outside the Continental U.S.
6. his original birth certificate has not been seen by the public
7. his Kenyan grandmother, who has never been to the U.S., says she attended his birth
You mean, "his Kenyan grandmother, who has never been to the U.S., says she attended his birth, y'all"
Here's Another Interesting Graph
.
Its amazing how many Americans are getting to hell out of the enlightened Northeast, and flocking to the South. What do you make of THAT?
..... I made the mistake before of thinking JimK was a fringe element of our society. The last 2 election cycles have taught me that there are a lot more people like him out there that I had expected. And that while someone who thinks like him would be an aberration in my Red State society, he is relatively close to his regional norm........ disgusting to say the least, but no more so than many of the others around him are.
But I think y'all are making the same mistake I did when you dismiss all these well-dressed white protesters showing up at, and disrupting, town hall meetings as being a insurance lobby supported right-wing fringe astroturf tools.
You're too enveloped in your regional progressive cocoon to realize just how accurately these Tea baggers reflect the sentiment on the streets outside of your neighborhoods.
You might be able to convince yourselves that these folks are acting on orders from the RNC and K-Street lobbyists, but the ones out there actually doing it know better. Dismiss their concerns at your own peril.
..... these were folks that were probably too busy working to attend protest rallies till Obama's economic policies gave them some free time on their hands. I bet there's not a single one of them that likes the Heath Insurance industry. I bet most of them are just as hostile to Republican politicians as they are Democrats. Its not a partisan thing. Its not a single issue thing. Its people who are fed up with people like you in government. Its people who dont want to be taxed to pay for someone else's healthcare or housing any more than y'all would have liked it if Bush had enacted a new tax to pay for the war in Iraq.
JimK has conditioned himself to ignore the call of the southern blood that runs through his veins. But I think he seems so concerned about these conservative rallies cause he knows how quick this could change the direction of the nation. How quick this could get real ugly.
If so, I think he's right for a change. If these folks cant find satisfaction at the ballot box in the next couple of election cycles.......... they're going to rock your world.
"You mean, "his Kenyan grandmother, who has never been to the U.S., says she attended his birth, y'all""
no, I meant what I said
it's kinda of sad how much liberals miss racism
Mr Racism was their best buddy
he helped them raise money, to close down any discussion, to twist words....
oh well, kids
maybe you can find a new ism to nurture and love
There are two "RT's" who comment here, I have the distinct feeling this is "Redneck Texan," and not "Real Teacher." RT, as you know, both my parents are Texans, I grew up in Goldwater's Arizona, I played Southern Rock in North Carolina and country-rock in Alaska, I've been in more than half the states in the country, and I am well aware of life as it exists outside the effete Eastern megalopolis fishbowl.
You're right that ugly sentiment can spread quickly through the red areas of the country, I wouldn't deny that. On the other hand, RT, you have to admit that the idea that Obama was not born in the US is ... crazy. The recent fake birth certificate that WND and Free Republic were so excited about shows you just how crazy this is, they are desperate for anything to support them, that is not rational thinking. They can't stand the fact that Obama won the election and is now running things, and they will say and do anything to convince themselves that it didn't really happen.
Any reasonable person looking at the situation sees what's happening. This crazy idea resonates with those who are so disappointed that a black guy, a liberal, an articulate brainy person, a Democrat, is President, and so they adopt this crazy story about him being born in Kenya as a fact, in spite of all evidence. There is no sense in denying the social reality of the belief contagion, but there is no sense in accepting the belief.
Oh, and I don't think the people are acting on orders from RNC or K Street, directly. They are acting on orders from rightwing talk radio, from Limbaugh and Hannity and Beck and the others, who are getting their talking points from ... somewhere. It is not like a bunch of independent thinkers, observing the facts, came to the same conclusion individually. The birther fiction, the "socialist" meme, are propagated in the mass media. The idea that the teabaggers are a bunch of rugged individualists, thinking for themselves, is a self-serving falsehood, they are sheep and you know it.
In my opinion, if the Republican Party is going to build its base on ignorance and sheepish flocking toward whatever Rush and Sean and Glenn say, then they are bound to fail in the long run. Or, as this graph implies, maybe the GOP will survive in the South only; that will get you Southern Republicans in Congress and Republican governors in a handful of states, but never the White House.
JimK
Oh, the Republicans will do very well in the Plains and Midwest and Rocky Mountains.
Even places like New Jersey will always be looking for an alternative.
The chance that Dems will retain the governor's seat this fall in NJ is slim.
And to think, that Dem disaster began with a New Jersey governor who decided he was a "gay American".
Remember, minorities, especially African Americans are the core of the Democratic Party, and those majorities are apt to become alienated over the Dembrace of the gay agenda and the kowtowing to the teachers' unions by blocking school choice programs that benefit disadvantaged kids.
The fuse is burning.
It was lit by Demselves and the they are holding the political time-bomb.
That's a great map, but without the underlying data, it's subject to misinterpretation. How many of those who move from the NE to the South (the largest group on the map) are retirees moving to Florida? Don't assume they're moving South to join the racist birther movement.
Dismiss their concerns at your own peril.
What's interesting is that the main concern these mobs express at the town hall meetings they attend to disrupt is that they do not want a government sponsored "socialist" healthcare policy. But when the Democratic Congressperson they target gets to ask for a show of hands of how many there are on Medicare, it starts to sink in. Most of our retirees rely on Medicare to survive old age's health challenges. If they manage to ban all "socialist" government funded programs, they will be hard pressed to afford their own medications and to see their own doctors.
You might be able to convince yourselves that these folks are acting on orders from the RNC and K-Street lobbyists, but the ones out there actually doing it know better.
Nice spin RT. Nobody said they're under "orders" but we see who is publicizing town halls and urging disruptions at them. You should try facing some facts. Here are several facts that Rachel Maddow's researchers have uncovered:
In terms of the origins of these protests, a big portion of the media continues, I think, to miss the obvious. D.C. lobbying groups with ties to the health care industry have not only been organizing these events, these made-for-YouTube ambushes, they also have been taking credit for them.
Meet Conservatives for Patients' Rights. It's a Washington, D.C.-based lobbying organization that's run by a former hospital executive named Rick Scott. Rick Scott was actually forced out of the health care company amid a fraud investigation that ultimately resulted in the company paying a $1.7 billion fine.
Well, now, Rick Scott's Conservatives for Patients' Rights is e-mailing out town hall alert flyers and e-mailing out spreadsheets about where town hall meetings are so that they can be targeted by activists on the right. Here's their Web site today, for example, prominently featuring a long list of congressional town hall meetings.
This is a health care industry-linked lobbying group organizing uprisings at town hall events. And if you check out other groups linked to Washington, D.C. lobbying firms, like FreedomWorks, for example, can you find your instructions about how best to shout down and intimidate any possibility of civil discourse at these events. So that corporate lobbying groups are doing their part-they're turning out the mobs, telling them where to go and giving them their scripts.
And now, elected Republicans in Washington are doing their part, too endorsing this strategy. The top Republican in the House, John Boehner, has released a statement approving of the disruption of the town halls, crowing over the, quote, "angry reception" given to Congressman Lloyd Doggett and promising a, quote, "long, hot August for Democrats."
And the National Republican Campaign Committee is now publicizing these disruptions in a new series of e-mails entitled "Recess Roastings." They're promoting and sharing the fact that town hall events have, in their words, turned into town hells for Democrats. Town halls, huh, they're town hells now. This message brought to you by the modern Republican Party.
Americans do not support:
--being denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions
--42% annual premium increases
--losing coverage when they face catastrophic illness
--losing coverage when they lose their job
Every American should compare the price and quality of private (bottled) water to public (what the government provides to your tap) to get an idea of what publicly funded healthcare can do for you.
save it, Anon-B
your side is losing
there will be some minor changes but no national health insurance
Obama has failed
it's just the beginning
The idea that the teabaggers are a bunch of rugged individualists, thinking for themselves, is a self-serving falsehood, they are sheep and you know it.
They're the sheep that keep the grocery shelves in Montgomery County stocked with food too. What would y'all do without them?
..... I think the health care debate hit a brick wall once Northern Union employees realized that the gold-plated insurance policies they had fought so hard to get were going to be in play with reform. Flirting with socialism was all fun and games as long as it was all about soaking the rich, but once it stated looking like their capitalistic trappings could be in jeopardy, it exposed the fault between the true believers in the Democratic party and those just looking for the best benefits package.
The whole debate, to me, boils down to "do Americans have a fundamental right to Health Care?"...... and the answer is NO, we dont. No more than we have a right to "Fair Housing", or affordable transportation. But apparently it doesn't matter what the Constitution says, once you garner a electoral majority that think it is, it will be. To hell with those that interpret the role of our government the way the founder's intended.
And the best way to stem the flow of Northerners from the self-destructive policies generations of Democrats have produced in the Northeast, is to force the south to become equally dysfunctional ....... look for these 10th amendment sovereignty declarations in Southern State legislatures to grow into a unified anti-Federal movement if the unemployment rate doesn't rebound by the end of Obama's single term. If the Fed's cut off the tax returns for non-compliance with DC's universal socialistic agenda, then you better start stocking up on groceries.
Was Obama born in America? Hell, I dont know. I'm going to assume he was till I see plausible evidence that he wasn't. But being as familiar as I am with how skilled the local immigrant workforce is in document forgery, including forged birth certificates, I am not prepared to totally discount the possibility that Obama's mother, given her documented exploits and travels, could have done exactly what I know for a fact many others have. I do think the vetting process for future candidate's citizenship needs to be a little better documented to meet the requirements of the Constitution.
But getting back to the tea-baggers..... it doesn't really matter whether they are sheep or not..... or whether they're racists or not ..... it only matters how far they're willing to go to protect the fabric of their societies from the likes of your kind. You think their going to eventually accept their marginalization? Do you think the socialistic policies that are being crammed down their throats today are going to prove them wrong as some point in the near future? I dont see it happening. I think they might play by the rules a little longer, but if at some point they realize they can never win again within the framework of the rules..... they'll change the rules on your ass.
btw..... you neglected to mention why you thought Americans are in mass migration away from the centers of Generational Democratic control, and into the relatively more robust, and less regulated, economies the simple minded southerners have created for themselves. I figured a man in your position would know the answer to that.
Hey RT, that was pretty good. First, the idea that government should not be responsible to provide health care, fine, that's a conservative position and can easily be argued without shouting the speaker down and rattling him. It's a good point and might win in a debate. Or might not. I've got no beef with someone holding that position, which I disagree with -- I do have a problem with thugs going out deliberately to intimidate and disrupt, when as you just demonstrated there is actually a case to be made.
As for the migration, I thought somebody else handled that all right already. New York City retires and moves to Florida. Have you ever been there? You don't hear a lot of Southern accents in the cities along the coast, you might say.
And as for the sheep being good hard-working people, again you've got a good point, and remember those are my people as much as yours. But they are being persuaded to go against their own self-interest, they are letting themselves be led along by arguments that are irrational on the surface and that result in profit for the rich and unemployment for the working class. They may be working too hard to read every article, they may be a little undereducated to follow the complicated maneuvering of the insurance companies, the pharmaceutical companies, the insurance companies, but like you I believe their hearts are in the right place. They're good people, their way of life deserves to be protected, but these days they are listening to the wrong people -- people who do not have their interests in mind.
JimK
Woops. Those second insurance companies were, uh, different from the first insurance companies ... I should have said "other insurance companies" ... or as I intended, "oil companies."
JimK
The result of the demographic movement from the snowbelt to the sunbelt is not, as RT would like to think, an increase in the conservatism of the country. Rather, it is causing, and will continue to cause, a liberalization of the south. Witness Virginia and North Carolina.
In the above, RT manages to insult Obama by associating his mother with illegal immigrants, then insulting immigrants.
Is this what we call equal opportunity, y'all?
The result of the demographic movement from the snowbelt to the sunbelt is not, as RT would like to think, an increase in the conservatism of the country. Rather, it is causing, and will continue to cause, a liberalization of the south. Witness Virginia and North Carolina.
I am certainly not suggesting that people are migrating to the south to be among Conservatives.
I am not suggesting they come here for the 105 degree Summers either. I dont see many retirees from NYC round' here.
The ones I know came here looking for gainful employment and a better quality of life for themselves and their children. They apparently could not find either back home.
Corporations are relocating here to get away from the tax and regulation burdens imposed upon them by Democratic controlled State and Local Governments. Or in some cases to get away from unreasonable environmental regulations out west.
What I actually did suggest is that political forces originating in the regions losing skilled constituents to the south have a vested interest in seeing the Federal government universally impose the taxes and regulations that chased the people and corporations out of their districts, to take away the migrants better options.
Whats sad is, your right, once they get registered to vote down here, they tend to fall back on their generational ideological conditioning and vote blue. The appeal of the promises of a socialistic utopia must remain strong even after you witness the economic results of it.
But those people too tend to congregate in our urban counties ...... those tiny blue dots in an otherwise endless sea of red on our electoral map...... They need groceries too. Its going to be pretty easy to choke them off from the outlying supplies.
Maybe after a few days of empty grocery shelves you will start to see further divisions of the Democrat's big tent base. ;-)
Wow, empty shelves huh?
Sounds like another empty threat to me.
Without us city folk to buy their goods, they'll have plenty to fatten up on but no still healthcare out there in those vast vacant endless seas of red...
Where do you live, RT? I'm from Pensacola.
North Texas
Jim: You are correct. I am the original RT (short for Retired Teacher). I was given that particular sobriquet by one of the CRCers a while back when the curriculum issues were what this blog site was about and I decided to use that as a short-hand way of identifying myself.
The new "RT" who has been posting under my i.d. (he, of the "anonymous" zillions posts) is about as far away from my political beliefs as possible so I abjure his appropriation of my i.d. and encourage him to develop some sense of ethics and morality when he posts his drivel here and find a new identification.
Retired Teacher (the original R.T.)
Okay, RT, I thought that was "real" but it's "retired teacher." This other RT is somebody I have known in the blogosphere for many years. He and I see everything exactly opposite, but we have been friends online for a long time.
He doesn't comment here very often, so it's not usually an issue. RT from Texas, you have used "Arty" before, would you mind using that here so we don't mix up our RT's?
JimK
Sure..... I was trying to avoid the Google spider.
..... which you entirely screwed up anyway.
I never really planned to migrate out of this thread anyway..... and I'm trying to wrap this one up.
I only came out of the lurking shadows to reinforce your fears of the growing anger on the Redneck street. Something's really goin' on out there dude. This is uncharacteristic behavior from the normally silent majority. These are not professional protesters, these are people taking off from work for the first time because they are fed up. If the left counter-protests these meetings as planned later this month....... people could get hurt..... this could escalate in a hurry. How far I dont know. These sheep, as you call them, might run from the brown-shirted ACORN stooges...... and they might not.
I'm not suggesting they represent a majority of the mainstream conservatives, but any student of history will tell you you dont need a majority to win a revolution ....... you just got to be more determined.
..... these folks look determined to me.
Take it easy man.
Something's really goin' on out there dude.
Yes, there is something goin[g] on out there, dude. White mobs are rising up against the policies of change proposed by the first black President of the United States that the majority of Americans voted for and embrace. The mobs prefer the status quo. Let them cling to their precious status quo.
The rest of us are going to enact the change we voted for, with or without their input and participation.
The "Sore Loserman" mobs of the 2008 election!
oh yeah
just like the "mobs" that went to McCain election rallies
you guys are pathetic
Obama is in a downward spiral and he doesn't know how to right the plane
he's never flown before
it won't take a mob to to bring him down politically
he's doing a nice job of it himself as we all just sit back and watch
Plain Palin in 2012
boo!
"Rep. Todd Akin (R-Mo.), at a town hall Tuesday, crowed that Democratic lawmakers returning to their home districts "almost got lynched," by angry town hall protesters. His remark got applause from the crowd" and laughter.
Lynching, what a riot!
See the video here
ANON-B
HERE IN YOUR BELTWAY BUBBLE, YOU MAY NOT REALIZE IT BUT PEOPLE IN THE HEARTLAND ARE IN TROUBLE ECONOMICALLY WHILE CONGRESS FLIRTS WITH CREATING A HUGE NEW ENTITLEMENT THAT EVERYONE AGREES WILL RAISE TAXES
PEOPLE VOTED FOR SOMEONE TO CHANGE THINGS FOR THE BETTER AND THEY GOT A LAZY PRESIDENT WHO IS LETTING NANCY PELOSI DO ALL THE HEAVY LIFTING
WE WOULDN'T HAVE ELECTED NANCY PELOSI!!!
People are angry because the President is doing nothing to go after the trial lawyers, like the sleazy John Edwards, who cause most of the health care increases
actually, people are angry because the President is doing nothing, period
malpractice reform needs to happen and we need to find a way to stop sending so much of our health care money to trial lawyers, like the sleazy John Edwards, a former Democrat VP nominee
we've had it with Democrats
By SCOTT RASMUSSEN
For all the back and forth about the “public option,” Congressional Budget Office estimates and proposed tax hikes, the fundamentals are really what make health-care reform a hard sell to American voters.
As members of Congress head home for the August recess, they should take a close look at some poll numbers before they attempt to pass any new legislation.
The most important fundamental is that 68% of American voters have health-insurance coverage they rate good or excellent.
That number comes from polling conducted this past weekend of 1,000 likely voters.
Most of these voters approach the health-care reform debate fearing that they have more to lose than to gain.
Adding to President Barack Obama’s challenge as he sells health-care reform to the public is the fact that most voters are skeptical about the government’s ability to do anything well.
While the president says his plan will reduce costs, 53% believe it will have the opposite effect.
There’s also the reality that 74% of voters rate the quality of care they now receive as good or excellent.
And 50% fear that if Congress passes health-care reform, it will lead to a decline in the quality of that care.
Advocates of health-care reform on Capitol Hill are up against something bigger than voters’ reactions to a variety of specific proposals.
Our polling in February found that by a 2-1 margin, voters believe that no matter how bad things are Congress can always make matters worse.
That’s one reason 78% believe passage of the current congressional health-care proposals is likely to mean higher taxes for the middle class.
63% of voters agreed with the president earlier this year when he said, “We must make it a priority to give every single American quality affordable health care.”
Yet while they agree in theory, only 28% are currently willing to pay higher taxes to achieve that goal.
Those opposed to Mr. Obama’s reform appear to have momentum on their side.
Polling last weekend showed that 48% of voters rate the U.S. health-care system as good or excellent.
That’s up from 35% in May and up from 29% a year ago.
Only 19% now rate the system as poor, down from 37% a year ago.
It appears that the prospect of changing health care has made the existing system look better to a lot of people.
Beyond the intensity of the opposition and its momentum, there is also a huge partisan gap that puts congressional Democrats in a very difficult position.
Currently, 76% of Democratic voters favor the health-care reform plan proposed by Mr. Obama and the congressional Democrats, and they are counting on their representatives to deliver.
But delivering for the Democratic base has the potential to hurt the party’s standing among independents.
Among the unaffiliated, 35% are in favor of the Democrats’ health-care reform initiative, and 60% are opposed.
Notably, just 16% of unaffiliated voters strongly favor the legislative effort; 47% strongly oppose it.
As the Democrats scramble to pass a health-care reform bill by the fall, they appear to have two choices.
One is to stick with the broad outlines of the plan that has been laid out by various congressional committees.
Those proposals would be well received within the party, but will cause some angst beyond it.
The other option would be to pass smaller scale reform and declare victory.
That approach would probably be well received by voters in the middle, but create turmoil within the party.
In political terms, the most important reality will be how the reform affects the 68% who say they have good or excellent health-insurance coverage.
If they end up having to change their coverage, pay significantly higher taxes, or encounter some other unpleasant reality, congressional Democrats will look back on this August as a time when they should have listened more closely to the folks back home.
SHOUTING ANON -- If you'd like me to address your comments, you will lower your voice. But I will say this: Nancy Pelosi has been Speaker of the House since 2006. Get over it.
People are angry because the President is doing nothing to go after the trial lawyers
Oh yeah. That's all you hear everywhere you go, trial lawyers this, trial lawyers that.
< eye roll >
we've had it with Democrats
Well, it's going to be a long seven and a half years for you!
And WTG Anon! You showed the author of your cut and paste of "polling conducted this past weekend," which lends credence to the idea that you **can** teach old dogs new tricks.
Today Rasmussen reports
"The Rasmussen Consumer Index, which measures the economic confidence of consumers on a daily basis, jumped over three points on Friday to 77.9 to the highest level in 11 months. The last time confidence was this high came just before the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the beginning of federal bailouts. The Consumer Index is up four points over the past week, up eight points over the past month, and up 18 points from the beginning of 2009..."
Great news, huh? President Obama's economic policies have raised the Consumer Index 18 points since January!
Let's hear it for that good ol' American spirit -- yes we can!
"But I will say this: Nancy Pelosi has been Speaker of the House since 2006."
As I've pointed out that's when things started to go South.
1981-2006 in America was the greatest economic expansion in history.
"Great news, huh? President Obama's economic policies have raised the Consumer Index 18 points since January!
Let's hear it for that good ol' American spirit -- yes we can!"
It is odd how the second it starts to look like Republicans are thwarting the Democrat Congress, everyone suddenly gets confidence again.
How bizarre, how bizarre.
1981-2006 in America was the greatest economic expansion in history.
That **expansion** created the housing bubble, that, according to Fortune Magazine began bursting in May 2006. Democrats didn't take over the House until January 2007.
What's bizarre is that you think the GOP and their health insurance company backers are thwarting anything with their townhall disruptions. Banging fists, chanting "JUST SAY NO," and Crazy Eileens grasping onto conspiracy theories while crying they want their good ol' boy run country back isn't working. It's making them look like dangerous crazed losers.
Republicans don't hold enough seats to thwart Congress. Their hot air is just turning townhall meetings into free-for-alls where no real meeting and certainly no rational discussion takes place. In fact, every Democratic Freshman whose town hall meeting has been disrupted by the GOP/health industry mobs has said it's only made their resolve to pass publicly funded healthcare stronger.
Scream about it all you want. The times they are changing and the change we voted for in November is coming.
The Crazy Eileens lost the election. Now they're losing their minds.
Andrea- not anon
Uh, the South is losing again?
Anon- a birther- no surprise.
"it's only made their resolve to pass publicly funded healthcare stronger"
that's funny because that's no longer included in the bills now being negotiated in congressional committees
looking at the debate so far, it's hard to see how Democrats could be said to have any "resolve" at all
they're running scared
Sarah Palin 2012
BOO!!
"Anon- a birther- no surprise"
I don't think I am.
I'm an agnostic on the issue.
I do agree with Lou Dobbs, however, that Obama could and should have put this baby to bed long ago.
There's probably some reason Obama doesn't want his original birth certificate seen or his grandmother interviewed but it may well be a problem other than place of residence.
We'll all know eventually.
Of that, we can be sure.
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