County Attorney to Join Justice Department That Is Investigating Him
Interesting twists and turns to a story that touches us here at TTF. You will remember that County Council member Duchy Trachtenberg and her staffer Dana Beyer, who is running for Maryland delegate and is a TeachTheFacts.org member from nearly the beginning, had asked for an investigation of Montgomery County Attorney Leon Rodriguez, after his office searched County Council computers and conducted a very poor, biased investigation of Beyer at the request of the Citizens for Responsible Government (CRG), aka the shower-nuts.
Introducing a sort of hometown angle to the complaint, Council member Duchy Trachtenberg requested that the US Justice Department send the chief of their Civil Rights division, Tom Perez, to look into the case. Perez is a former Montgomery County Councilman himself, was state Secretary of Labor, and might have been Maryland Attorney General were it not for some nasty partisan hardball a few years back.
That was interesting enough, but Maryland Politics Watch is reporting a new wrinkle. This week County executive Ike Leggett announced that Leon Rodriguez is leaving his position at County Attorney and will join the Obama Justice Department, where he will be working for Tom Perez. Yes, he will be part of the department that is supposed to be investigating himself.
Rodriguez had been looking into allegations that Beyer behaved inappropriately in countering a referendum petition drive in Montgomery County. All allegations were dismissed except one, which is a he-said-she-said disagreement between Beyer, who is a transgender woman, and an obnoxiously anti-transgender CRG member. The County Attorney's investigation took statements from CRG members, including some who were not present during the alleged incident, and took one statement from a witness written entirely in the hand of CRG president Ruth Jacobs -- the investigators never spoke to the witness himself. No one who might have supported Dana Beyer's side was interviewed -- and that includes myself and several other TTF members who were monitoring the petition gathering process.
The County Attorney's secret investigation of Dana Beyer was shamefully unethical, and the Justice Department needs to look into it. I don't see how they can ever do that fairly, though, if Rodriguez is working for them.
Introducing a sort of hometown angle to the complaint, Council member Duchy Trachtenberg requested that the US Justice Department send the chief of their Civil Rights division, Tom Perez, to look into the case. Perez is a former Montgomery County Councilman himself, was state Secretary of Labor, and might have been Maryland Attorney General were it not for some nasty partisan hardball a few years back.
That was interesting enough, but Maryland Politics Watch is reporting a new wrinkle. This week County executive Ike Leggett announced that Leon Rodriguez is leaving his position at County Attorney and will join the Obama Justice Department, where he will be working for Tom Perez. Yes, he will be part of the department that is supposed to be investigating himself.
Rodriguez had been looking into allegations that Beyer behaved inappropriately in countering a referendum petition drive in Montgomery County. All allegations were dismissed except one, which is a he-said-she-said disagreement between Beyer, who is a transgender woman, and an obnoxiously anti-transgender CRG member. The County Attorney's investigation took statements from CRG members, including some who were not present during the alleged incident, and took one statement from a witness written entirely in the hand of CRG president Ruth Jacobs -- the investigators never spoke to the witness himself. No one who might have supported Dana Beyer's side was interviewed -- and that includes myself and several other TTF members who were monitoring the petition gathering process.
The County Attorney's secret investigation of Dana Beyer was shamefully unethical, and the Justice Department needs to look into it. I don't see how they can ever do that fairly, though, if Rodriguez is working for them.
posted by JimK at 9:37 PM
28 Comments:
Guys,
Dana acted inappropriately.
Really, all of you did, but her conduct takes on an particularly insidious nature due to her position as an agent of the author of the bill that was the target of the petition.
Citizens should be free to petition without harassment, especially by a government representative. The time for your involvement is during the campaign against the the recall of the bill, if a sufficient number of citizens feel it should be voted on.
The petition wouldn't overturn the bill but rather bring it to a public discussion and leave the decision to voters. That's the time to argue your case.
Dana received a mild slap on the wrist for some very unethical behavior.
She should admit it and move on.
this is crazy:
"Amanda Simpson, a former test pilot for Raytheon, has been named to the Bureau of Industry and Security as Senior Technical Advisor by President Barack Obama.
Simpson, who now identifies as a female, was nominated by the National Center for Transgender Equality (NCTE).
In a news release from NCTE, Simpson expressed hope to "soon be one of hundreds (of transgender presidential appointees)."
"Is there going to be a transgender quota now in the Obama administration?" asked Peter LaBarbera, president of Americans for Truth. "How far does this politics of gay and transgender activism go? Clearly this is an administration that is pandering to the gay lobby.""
God bless Peter. We can always count on him.
Just to note, Peter's organization is AFTAH, "Americans for Truth About Homosexuality."
anon-deluxe: "Citizens should be free to petition without harassment"
anon-inane: "That's right, and Dana is a citizen.
When do you plan to quit harassing her, Anone?"
this is quite an idiotic statement, even for you, anon-B
CRG was petitioning the government, as is their right as citizens.
An employee of that government, one whose work was the target of the petition, harassed them.
Dana got off lightly.
That's the facts.
Go teach 'em.
"Spoiled children who do not get their way throw some terrible and embarrassing tantrums."
This is an offensive way to characterize citizens peaceably petitioning the government.
I don't why you guys think winning a couple of legal cases requires your opponents to sacrifice their right to free speech but try Russia if you'd like find a government according to your vision.
Anon accused:
“Dana acted inappropriately.
Really, all of you did, but her conduct takes on an (sic) particularly insidious nature due to her position as an agent of the author of the bill that was the target of the petition.”
Anon, please elaborate on how you think I acted “inappropriately.” Be specific.
Cynthia
just by bothering these guys while they were trying to collect petitions
you and your other tran friend were less obnoxious than other TTFers though because you were always saying "Have a nice day with your pet rock!"
Anon asserted:
“just by bothering these guys while they were trying to collect petitions”
I did not stand out in freezing whether to “bother” people. I took copies of the actual legislation with me (as well as a bag of chocolates) along with my personal history to share with anyone willing to listen. I talked to both petition gatherers and potential and actual signers.
It was my civic duty to bring some reality to the fantastical contrivances that were being put forth by the CRG -- like not being able to choose your roommate and that the law was an open invitation for pedophiles to prey on little girls – using the law as cover to get away with it.
I never raised my voice, used foul language, called people names, or otherwise acted “inappropriately.”
“you and your other tran friend were less obnoxious than other TTFers though because you were always saying "Have a nice day with your pet rock!”
While it is not uncommon for me to wish folks “Have a nice day,” I do not recall any references to pet rocks. Perhaps you can refresh my memory.
Have a nice day,
Cynthia
The petiotners didn't go out there to chat with you about your personal history and they needed to focus on what they were doing
I'm not saying your conduct rose to the level of Danabyerism, btw.
It's not like you were an assistant to a councilman trying to convince store owners to prevent petitioners from dissenting against your boss's bill.
But you didn't belong there.
You would have had plenty of chance to make your case when the recall went on the ballot.
The petitioners were stopping people and saying, "Would you like to sign a petition to keep men out of women's bathrooms?" I'm glad that some TTF folks were there to set the record straight, the bill had nothing to do with men going into women's bathrooms. The shower-nuts were getting signatures by lying to people, TTF was telling people the truth.
"I'm glad that some TTF folks were there to set the record straight, the bill had nothing to do with men going into women's bathrooms. The shower-nuts were getting signatures by lying to people, TTF was telling people the truth."
The time for giving your side is when the bill is put up for vote.
anon-deluxe: "you didn't belong there"
anon-inane: "Spoken like a true bigot.
The fact is any citizen regardless of their personal history or current employer can address any petitioners who stand out in front of Giant stores seeking input from the public."
theoretically, ordinary citizens can but it's not a good idea
basically, it's confrontational and incivil
furthermore, it demonstrates a lack of faith either in the democratic process or in the public consensus
you guys are so desperate to prevent a public debate because you know gay advocacy causes rarely withstand a public discussion
Dana, on the other hand, took actions that are inaapropriate for someone on her position
that's just reality and there's been an official ruling
here's a phrase you guys are fond of:
YOU LOST!!!@!
GET OVER IT!!@!@!@@!!!!
how'd I do?
Perez is asked to investigate misconduct ny a county attorney and then he hires the attorney?
I think that tells you right there what his opinion of Duchy's request is
he thinks it's baseless or we hire the guy
Duchy and Dana need to publicly recant their actions and move on
Anon stated:
“The petiotners didn't go out there to chat with you about your personal history and they needed to focus on what they were doing”
No one forced them to chat with me. Some of them ignored me. It was entirely their choice.
“But you didn't belong there.”
On what basis do you make this bizarre claim? This is America, remember? Land of the Free? I’ve been a hard working engineer in Montgomery County since 1989. Now people were out there claiming that it should be legal to discriminate against people like me in jobs and housing. The CRG was doing this by fear mongering – claiming that 23-07 would be used by sexual predators to invade women’s locker rooms and little girl’s restrooms.
Let’s imagine for a moment that a group called “CRR,” Citizens for Responsible Religion started a petition drive to make it legal to discriminate against Catholics in housing and employment. Now imagine that they claim that the basis for this discrimination would be the well documented, decades long history of Catholic priests sexually abusing children, as well as the Catholic Church’s equally long history of hiding these felons, moving them to other parishes, and buying off witnesses so the pedophiles can continue working in the church. It would be unconscionable to let a group of people (Catholics in this case) roam free in our society where they could potentially do so much damage to our children. Even if the Catholics aren’t involved in the pedophilia itself, they are easily bought off by the Church and fail to do their civic duty by reporting it to law enforcement – they have shown it is more important to protect their Church rather than our children.
Are you going to try and tell me that Catholics shouldn’t be around the petition gatherers trying to tell their side of the story? Are you going to tell me they “don’t belong there?” That they should wait till the vote comes up on the recall ballot? I don’t think so.
“I'm not saying your conduct rose to the level of Danabyerism, btw.”
No, you just said that ALL of us acted “inappropriately.” You have yet to relate an incident where any of my behavior was inappropriate in any sense of the word.
“You would have had plenty of chance to make your case when the recall went on the ballot.”
I’m sure you would have loved to have me wait until then. You are well aware of how convincing your fear mongering techniques play on a public that is blissfully unaware of the details of the legal realities of the law.
I let bullies run (and nearly ruin) my life by calling me names, harassing me, and denigrating me way back in the fourth grade. The basic techniques used by the CRG are no different from those fourth graders. The only significant difference is that the CRG puts their diatribes on large color posters and stand out at street corners and shopping centers rather than bullying me in the playground. I’ve grown up since then. I no longer let people bully me around.
Have a nice day,
Cynthia
"Are you going to try and tell me that Catholics shouldn’t be around the petition gatherers trying to tell their side of the story? Are you going to tell me they “don’t belong there?” That they should wait till the vote comes up on the recall ballot?"
yes, I do think that
taking it to the streets is a dangerous move
you might note that Nazis started by going out to harass people protesting and petitioning them
an employee of the Nazi party, who was also gay, ran this operation which tried to incite confrontation
not saying TTF or Dana is as venal as a Nazi but you can see why this type of activity is not wise and should be seen as unethical when conducted by government employees
"No, you just said that ALL of us acted “inappropriately.” You have yet to relate an incident where any of my behavior was inappropriate in any sense of the word."
yes, I did, and I explained why
don't think you lull us into complacency by saying "Have a nice day with your pet rock!"
"I’m sure you would have loved to have me wait until then. You are well aware of how convincing your fear mongering techniques play on a public that is blissfully unaware of the details of the legal realities of the law."
Well, if you've lost faith in the efficacy of debate and discussion in the democratic process, you really are pretty hopeless.
If any of CRG's statements actually constitute "fear mongering", why can't you counter them in a civil debate?
"I let bullies run (and nearly ruin) my life by calling me names, harassing me, and denigrating me way back in the fourth grade."
happens to lots of people in fourth grade, not just gays
kids can be mean, especially those from a secular background
we all survive
fourth grade doesn't ruin anyone's life
"The basic techniques used by the CRG are no different from those fourth graders."
they were peaceably collecting petitions
you were trying to interfere with that process, whuch is the equivalent of interupting someone while they're speaking
"The only significant difference is that the CRG puts their diatribes on large color posters and stand out at street corners and shopping centers rather than bullying me in the playground. I’ve grown up since then. I no longer let people bully me around."
this is a fallacy in post-modern thought that you've bought into
disagreement and disapproval is not the equivalent of abuse
"Have a nice day"
say hi to your pet rock
"Of course, "Anonymouse"...we can conveniently overlook the occasions (two of them, to be exact) at two different locations, when I was practically assaulted in front of the Giants"
really?
how do you "practically" assault someone?
did you "practically" call the police?
"I was planning on peacefully shopping at. Screaming at me and pushing a "petition" into my face to sign, while mouthing the "party line" of fear and hatred of transgendered people, is not indicative of "petitioning without harassment". That, to me, is a pretty clear example of "uncivil" behavior."
well, it's hard to believe they did that since it would probably not result in many signatures
I think you're lying
"Such an innocent and naive way for you to feign perceived injustices to you and your cause. Nobody buys that act anymore."
apparently, Tom Perez and Leon Rodriguez and those who ruled against D Beyer are buying it
"It seems to me that you need to find some time to take a basic course in civics so that you can better understand the concept of "representative democracy" (as contrasted with a "direct democracy" which you advocate)"
perhaps you do
the petitioning to overturn newly passed laws is a part of our system here in the Mason-Dixon state
"as well as reviewing your Bible and the teachings of your religion before you point fingers and pass judgments on others"
and what "judgment" have I passed?
(Jan. 6) -- As the government prepares to roll out the 2010 Census on March 15, one of the 10 questions on the form already has people cringing. Question 9 asks respondents to designate their race and gives them the option of choosing "Negro," a term many have considered derogatory and antiquated for years.
The time for giving your side is when the bill is put up for vote.
Bill 23-07 was "put up for the vote" on November 13, 2007. Jim blogged about it here. That was the day that Adol T. Owen-Williams II, a Montgomery County Republican Central Committee member, stood up and shouted ‘‘Heil Hitler!” and ‘‘Wait until little girls start showing up dead all over the county because of freaks of nature.”
I guess that was Adol "giving [the CRG] side when the bill [was] put up for the vote." By the way, the vote was unanimous in favor of the TTF view of tolerance and inclusion.
Anone and Adol both use the Nazi image in their "public debasing" way too much, and no that's not a typo. Anone should tell his buddy Adol the body count so far is zero, just like the public's opinion of Adol's and Anone's public comments.
So let's see, if Anone thinks the time for "giving your side is when the bill is put up for the vote," then Anone thinks petition drives after the vote should not be allowed.
you guys are so desperate to prevent a public debate
We see who tried to prevent "public debate," in order to force a vote by the majority on minority rights. Had we done that in the 60's, we still have Jim Crow laws all over the place.
In MoCo during the petition drive by CRG, there were thousands of little public debates every time a CRGer asked someone to sign a petition. Anone thinks that was OK but thinks it was not OK for TTFers to engage in those same little public debates. Sorry Anone, but it takes two sides to have a debate. The CRG and its supporters like Anone don't seem to understand what public debate is. Lying to people and publicly debasing one's opponents by calling them or describing their actions as similar to "Nazis" is NOT "public debate;" it is "public debasement" and "harassment."
that's just reality and there's been an official ruling
Another "reality" is that Judge Williams made an "official ruling" after which the Liberty Counsel left the state of Maryland with $36,000 of MCPS's much needed money. The most striking thing about Judge Williams' decision was that it was the first, last, and only "official ruling" that sided with the CRC view. Every other "official ruling" on the MCPS curriculum revisions issued by courts and other government agencies has sided with TTF's view of tolerance and inclusion.
Now Mr. Rodriguez, who made what will most likely be the first, last, and only ruling to side with the CRG, has left his position with the Montgomery County Government. The next "official ruling" by HRC will correct his blatant error too.
Anone apparently hasn't heard. Bigotry and exclusion are so Bush Administration.
Well Anon, you’ve given me plenty of material to rebut. Unfortunately I have to be in Baltimore this morning at a customer site, so I don’t have time to (once again) thoroughly debunk your argument. Hopefully I’ll get a chance to this weekend, maybe after I help make some sandwiches for the homeless on Saturday.
Have a nice day,
Cynthia
"Nobody here really cares what you think"
so, why are you making a comment
if no one cared, you'd ignore me
truth is, you know that everyone thinks you're lying
no one screamed at you and pushed a petition in your face
no one is fooled
Seneca wrote:
“I always admire your tact, gentleness, sensitivity, and humanity.”
Why thank you very much, Seneca, I think I’m blushing! :D
“Attempting to "debate" our "Anonymous" troll is an exercise in futility, though.
He/she is indeed the proverbial Horse who abhors the water of intelligence.”
If you think I’m trying to change his/her mind, then yes, it would be an exercise in futility. But that’s not my intent. As Jim has stated on several occasions, he lets these folks post here as a window to their psyche. Many Americans have a “live and let live” attitude towards LGBT community. They find it hard to imagine the vitriolic loathing harbored by some of our Anonymous bloggers, but when they post it up here day after day, post after post, you begin to realize just how deep and strong their feelings run, and what they’re willing to do spread their views.
It is unlikely anything I write will ever change their minds. And quite frankly it’s not important that I do. They are merely a foil. Few people would put much credence to my claims of discrimination, harassment, and bigotry without these folks expressing it so eloquently and persistently. The most amusing part about it is that they think that by referring to me as a “sexual deviant,” “mentally ill,” “a confused guy who thinks he’s a girl,” a “brown skirt,” “part of the gay agenda with intentions of turning America in to a fascist state,” or any of dozens of other epithets they are “scoring points” and advancing their own agenda.
A number of months ago one of the Midwestern papers had a story about Maryanne and the 23-07 battle on their website. One of the posts in the comment section read something like “After reading the article I had pretty much made up my mind about these kinds of laws, but I came here to post, and after reading all the crap from these bigots I now understand why these folks need all the protection they can get.”
Those are the people I’m trying to reach.
Have a nice day,
Cynthia
"Many Americans have a “live and let live” attitude towards LGBT community. They find it hard to imagine the vitriolic loathing harbored by some of our Anonymous bloggers, but when they post it up here day after day, post after post, you begin to realize just how deep and strong their feelings run, and what they’re willing to do spread their views."
I haven't done anything other than post on this blog. Oh, and I did sign the petition to overturn 23-07.
When you say "live and let live", you apparently believe you haven't really lived if you don't have the approval of society.
I'm perfectly happy to let you not only live but say what you want and associate with whoever you want and engage in whatever sexual practices with them you want.
You on the other hand want to shut up anyone who doesn't approve of you and persistently try to enlist the government to act in complicity with you.
As for "vitriolic loathing", I don't loathe you at all.
"A number of months ago one of the Midwestern papers had a story about Maryanne and the 23-07 battle on their website. One of the posts in the comment section read something like “After reading the article I had pretty much made up my mind about these kinds of laws, but I came here to post, and after reading all the crap from these bigots I now understand why these folks need all the protection they can get.”"
Assuming this story is correct and not some plant by a TTFer, it would be interesting to know what he observed that you need protection from.
More likely, a weak-minded individual read the over-the-top hyperbole from TTF and was swayed by it.
To put in terms even a TTFer could comprehend, if any citizen is receiving "protection" from the speech of another citizen, there is no free speech.
So go yell "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater and enjoy the fruits of unrestricted free speech.
are you saying that free speech that insults gays is so dangerous that it should be illegal?
are you saying that is someone utters the idea that homosexuals are promiscuous, for example, it is the equivalent of yelling "fire" in a crowded theater?
You're the one who said there's no free speech if citizens are protected "from hearing the speech of another citizen."
Here's your quote -
"if any citizen is receiving "protection" from the speech of another citizen, there is no free speech."
You didn't say there were any exceptions so citizens might express "God hates fags" or "FIRE" or "Heil Hitler!"
Is there any speech you think citizens should be protected from?
I previously asked:
"Are you going to try and tell me that Catholics shouldn’t be around the petition gatherers trying to tell their side of the story? Are you going to tell me they “don’t belong there?” That they should wait till the vote comes up on the recall ballot?"
And Anon responded:
“yes, I do think that”
Well, Anon, I’m going to have to disagree with you on that one. If a group bands together to try and take away employment and housing rights from Catholics, I think people SHOULD be out there giving other viewpoints right along side the petition collectors. I would hope that a lot of people besides Catholics would be out there as well trying to mitigate the propaganda.
“taking it to the streets is a dangerous move”
Any time I reveal my medical history to people I don’t know it is a potentially dangerous move. You never know how they’ll respond to that kind of information. I am well aware of that.
“you might note that Nazis started by going out to harass people protesting and petitioning them”
I was out there talking to people, not harassing them. My day ended by sharing a hug with one of my political opponents. If dialog, handshakes, and hugs were actually Nazi tactics, there is a glaring omission from the history books. At one point in our day, the wind blew papers from one of the petitioner’s tables and Maryanne went around helping him pick them up and return them to his table. Let me see… was that maneuver from the Gestapo handbook or the SS training manual?
“an employee of the Nazi party, who was also gay, ran this operation which tried to incite confrontation”
Ah yes, the old “gays were instrumental in Hitler’s rise to power” argument. Dr. Warren Throckmorton, Psychology Professor and conservative blogger has written a whole series of articles debunking the “Pink Swastika” thesis. Here are the links:
http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/06/03/before-the-pink-swastika/
http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/06/04/kevin-abrams-the-other-side-of-the-pink-swastika/
http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/06/08/a-historians-analysis-of-the-pink-swastika-part-1/
http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/06/11/american-nazi-and-homosexuality-how-pink-is-their-swastika/
http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/06/15/nazi-movement-rallies-against-gays-in-springfield-mo/
The articles are quite detailed, as they contain bits of history that were conveniently omitted by the people originating the thesis, as well as references to other sources which give decidedly different information. It takes a while to real through them all, but it is well worth the effort. Dr. Throckmorton is meticulous in dismantling the house of cards that holds up the “gays brought Hitler to power” argument. I’m not a huge fan of the Dr. myself; however, he is scientifically rigorous in his dissection of this topic.
“not saying TTF or Dana is as venal as a Nazi”
Why, how kind of you. Maybe I’m really not as bad as a Nazi. Keep the compliments coming Anon.
“but you can see why this type of activity is not wise and should be seen as unethical when conducted by government employees”
If you’re REALLY behaving like a Nazi, it doesn’t matter whether you’re a government employee or not. The behavior is unwise. It’s a good thing I don’t engage in it.
To my assertion:
"No, you just said that ALL of us acted “inappropriately.” You have yet to relate an incident where any of my behavior was inappropriate in any sense of the word."
Anon answered:
“yes, I did, and I explained why”
Your explanation consisted of:
“The petiotners (sic) didn't go out there to chat with you about your personal history and they needed to focus on what they were doing”
Some attacks on Dana, and
“But you didn't belong there.”
Which doesn’t really address my assertion: “You have yet to relate an incident where any of my behavior was inappropriate in any sense of the word.”
I can understand how you might find my presence “inconvenient,” “annoying,” “distracting,” “bothersome,” “an affront to your sensibilities,” “irksome,” “time consuming,” “unsettling,” “audacious,” and perhaps a few other adjectives. But you didn’t really have a solid argument for any of my behavior being “inappropriate.” I suspect you realized that though, and that’s why you had to fall back on the “fascist Nazi takeover” argument.
On many blog sites this is referred to as “Reductio ad Hitlerum.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum )
This is often the point where a blog administrator will close a topic off for further discussion because the argument has degenerated to the point where at least one side of the debate has run out of any pertinent discussion. Lacking any cogent argument, it is left with nothing but to try and associate the opposing side with the single worst homicidal maniac in human history in hopes that some of the “crap will stick.”
Anon asserted:
“Well, if you've lost faith in the efficacy of debate and discussion in the democratic process, you really are pretty hopeless.
If any of CRG's statements actually constitute "fear mongering", why can't you counter them in a civil debate?”
There was a relatively civil debate – it occurred at several County Council meetings. I wasn’t there (because I didn’t know about 23-07 at the time) but Maryanne was, as well as folks presenting their views from the CRG side.
Apparently, Maryanne’s testimony, as well as those from others on her side was more persuasive to the County Council than arguments from the CRG. They eventually voted unanimously against the CRG. I say the debate was “relatively” civil because the CRG argument was pretty much based almost entirely on two themes: “transgenders are mentally ill / deviant” and “accommodating them will lead to predators attacking our women and children.”
If find it fascinating that as this law was intended to protect a particular minority, the CRG still doesn’t realize that all of their demonizing of that minority only further made the case that trans folk were in need of protection from people like them.
When Salt Lake City debated their gender identity law, even the Mormon Church acknowledged the blatantly simple fact that people with disparate gender identities were indeed being discriminated against and that something should be done about it. Since the church wasn’t demonizing victims in the first place, it is really no surprise they ended up with more exceptions to suit their needs than the CRG got. Civility can go a long way for you in a debate. I think readers here can easily make judgments about who is being civil and who is not.
Well, I have more issues to address, but it’s time for me to head out and visit with some of my super T friends.
Have a nice evening,
Cynthia
"Why, how kind of you. Maybe I’m really not as bad as a Nazi. Keep the compliments coming Anon."
This cracked me up, Cynthia.
Thanks for posting the research on the gay nazi connection. I will look at it and consider it in light of the other information I've seen.
I actually never knew about this connection until I did some research after listening to TTFers comparing CRC to Nazis. It came as a surprise to me. Whether it's true or not, I don't know but I've read lots of support for it from sources that aren't usually opposed to the gay agenda.
Anon wrote:
“Thanks for posting the research on the gay nazi connection. I will look at it and consider it in light of the other information I've seen.”
I believe it was Aunt Bea who originally pointed out Dr. Throckmorton’s research many months ago. It even managed to spur some posts from the doctor himself. There are more links related to those articles at his site, but unfortunately they are broken. I’m hoping someone will fix them.
If you really want some insight into the psychological underpinnings and sociological manipulation responsible for the Nazi’s rise to power, I would recommend renting or buying the movie “Freedom Writers” starring Hilary Swank.
http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Writers-Screen-Hilary-Swank/dp/B000NOK1KM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1263220721&sr=1-1
It’s the true story of how a single very motivated teacher eventually reaches out to (then delinquent) teenagers, gets them to face their own fears and prejudices, actually gets them to work together, and DRAMATICALLY alters the course of their lives for the better.
After that, I recommend watching “Hotel Rwanda” staring Don Cheadle.
http://www.amazon.com/Hotel-Rwanda-Don-Cheadle/dp/B0007R4T3U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1263221307&sr=1-1
It documents another genocide, on another continent, with an entirely different culture of people decades after the Nazi atrocities.
See if you notice any similarities in these tragedies and draw your own conclusions.
“I actually never knew about this connection until I did some research after listening to TTFers comparing CRC to Nazis. It came as a surprise to me. Whether it's true or not, I don't know but I've read lots of support for it from sources that aren't usually opposed to the gay agenda”
Funny, I never new about the “Nazi-gay connection” until 23-07 opponents started calling me a “browskirt” and posting Neo-Nazi pictures. (See http://www.jerryweast.com/ and scroll down to the article “The Browskirts are Coming!)
I suppose I should be particularly offended because 1, I’m not gay. (I have never had a sexual relationship with anyone that has had the same genitals as me either before or after surgery. And even if you think I’m “still a man,” you still can’t claim I’m gay because still haven’t had a sexual relationship with a man, and I’m 5 years post-op. In fact it’s highly unlikely that I will be involved in any sexual relationships.) And 2, I’m not a Nazi and never will be.
The Neo-Nazi movement is still alive and (unfortunately) well in this country. Some of those people are finally beginning to realize the damage they are doing to our country. See: http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jul/10/local/me-hate10 So maybe there is still some reason to hope.
Have a nice day.
Cynthia
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