Dumb Video from Mass Resistance
A couple of years ago our Montgomery County, Maryland, County Council passed a bill prohibiting discrimination on the basis of gender identity. It was an innocuous thing, a couple of words added to the usual race religion national origin etcetera, but a certain tiny element in our community tried to make it into something it wasn't. They asserted that transgender people are dangerous somehow, that they are a sexual threat. They tried to assert that if you couldn't discriminate against transgender people, the inevitable result would be sexual predators and pedophiles hanging around in women's restrooms, molesting women and children with no legal consequences. Of course the premises are incorrect and that didn't happen.
Sometimes the doctor is wrong when a baby is born. There are many ways it can happen, sometimes a boy is raised as a girl or vice versa, and at some point that person may decide to take responsibility for correcting the mistake. If the decision is made after puberty the individual may have features that correspond to the sex they do not identify with, for instance a woman may have a deep voice or whiskers or a man may have developed breasts and a woman's figure, and so the transition may seem awkward or confusing to others, it may make someone uncomfortable struggling with pronouns and appropriate gender roles. Most of us can get over that, but some small number of people simply find it unacceptable and frightening that anyone would make the decision to live as the person they really are.
A bunch of those people, apparently, live in Massachusetts. There is a group up there that calls themselves Mass Resistance, their main thrust is that they oppose gay and transgender people, in the most ignorant way.
This week Mass Resistance posted a video on YouTube. Last year these creepy people went to the Tiffany Club of New England’s (TCNE) annual conference, one of the largest transgender conferences in the United States, in Peabody, Massachusetts, and took video of people going in and out of the bathrooms. This is a conference that addresses the needs of transgender people, from sessions on surgical options and family support to legal and spiritual topics.
The video can be seen HERE. It is a grainy thing, probably done with a cell phone, you can just imagine these people cruising the halls of the Peabody Marriott, taking shocking footage of transgender people going into the bathroom and getting on elevators and eating and other shocking things.
The explanatory text at YouTube says this:
You almost can't read this without feeling all sarcastic inside. I will try to suppress the urge.
The video alternates between amateurish text screens and amateurish recorded video from the conference. First there is a title screen giving the name and location of the conference. Then we see a pile of snow outside what is apparently a hotel.
Next, text:
That radical movement being, we assume, people who transition to their subjective sex.
Next we are shown a screen with a picture of a poster that says "Welcome to the Peabody Marriott." The camera zooms in on the poster. There are crowd noises. The camera turns to some blurry people walking around.
Text with a blurry, dark photo behind it:
There is a photograph of a woman standing there with papers in her hand, talking to someone.
Text with another picture behind it:
Uh, I see a lady in a pink jacket. There are other people in the picture.
Now a screen of text:
If I may refer to a personal experience here ... the worst hotel stay I ever had was in Indianapolis one time when the hotel was full of a convention of Seventh Day Adventists. Those people were up and down the halls all night yelling and stomping around, they'd be sitting on the floor in the hall when you opened your door, spilling food on the floor, they jammed the lobby making noise, it was terrible. Other guests were not told that the Seventh Day Adventists would be there. In fact, I have never heard of a hotel telling guests what groups are planning conferences during their stay. It's not discrimination, it just doesn't make sense. "All right, Mister Jones, that will be a party of four, two adults and two children, two double beds, nonsmoking, on January Seventeenth. We will be having a wedding reception in the banquet room and the Southeastern Iowa Agricultural Engineering Association will be holding their annual budget meeting that day in the conference center. Will that still be acceptable to you?"
Next there is a picture of a lady in a skirt and sweater, it looks like, conservatively dressed, possibly with a bag on her arm, and text:
Ah, now they are getting to the juicy part. A black screen with stern black san-serif text set in an ominous purple cloud.
The camera careens around the room, over the ceiling, finally settling on a couple of girls getting into an elevator. The taller one appears to be texting on a cell phone. You know, transgender people have families, they have children. These two people look like family to me, or friends. I would say sisters, maybe it is a parent and child, I can't tell. I think we are supposed to think it is a sexual predator and "his" victim, and it certainly is not. Some people get off the elevator. I wonder if they know they are being videotaped by lurking conservatives.
Next, a screen of text, now black text on a blue cloud...
I am choking down the sarcasm here, ok? Give me some credit. Why would it matter how tall a transgender person is?
And let's make this clear. When they say "men dressed as women" or when they call these women "transgender men" or "male cross-dressers" they are merely insulting the attendees of the conference. Gender is not binary, it is a continuum, and there are people who do not fall neatly into one category or the other. The reasonable resolution is to refer to them by the label they prefer. Maybe it's just politeness, but it's as good a rule as any.
Next they show a still photo of someone walking in the hallway, with this text:
Another screen...
Now a screen of text:
The scene starts with a long shot of a row of phones and a door, then we have a close-up of the door, which says "Women" on it. Then there is video of some men and women standing around talking, then two women go into the ladies room, one comes out, another goes in, some people walk by. Text appears in front of the scene that says:
A woman who we assume is the cleaning lady opens the door and walks in. She appears to be about five feet tall. The women going into the ladies room did not almost hit their heads on the door frame, BTW.
Somebody comes out of the ladies room, and -- ooh, this is exciting! -- a tall woman enters the restroom! She also does not almost hit her head on the door frame, but she may be five foot ten or so, which is pretty tall for a woman. A lady is standing in the hall, the cleaning lady pulls her cart over and stands beside her. They appear to be the same size. Other short women walk past, and another lady goes into the ladies room. Most of the crowd appears to be women. A bald man walks through the group. I wonder if there is something sinister about him. If there is, I can't spot it in this video. Almost everyone is nicely dressed, I don't see any blue jeans here, lots of expensive-looking dresses.
Aha! They have spotted something. Text appears on the screen:
And sure enough, we see two probably-Hispanic women in uniforms enter the ladies room. One appears to have towels, maybe paper towels, in her hand. Are transgender women supposed to be messier than cis-women or something? I don't get this part.
A man in a turtleneck sweater walks past. He is walking fast. There is no text noting that he is freaked out and scared to death by all the scary weirdos surrounding him. Maybe he's not.
The restroom door seems to be propped open, and we see the cleaning-ladies' cart pass back and forth. Ooh! Ooh! A tall woman! Did you see that?!?!
Two men walk by. One is wearing a hat. Does that mean something? The other one has a uniform and a patch on his arm. He might be a Trans Nazi officer. Or hotel security.
This is the most boring video in the world. Imagine that you are at a conference, watching people standing in the hallway conversing between sessions, and now and then one of them goes to the bathroom. That's what this is.
More shocking text:
Let me note that sexual ambiguity has been central to rock music since Elvis and Little Richard.
Next we see still pictures from the banquet. This is about as dull as life gets. It appears that a Mass Resistance person may have paid to register for the conference and attend the banquet, so they could get these shocking photos of some people eating.
Then there is a screen of text:
Then you hear the sound, with a blurry video playing behind this text:
This apparently is the person in the band saying these things. Weird to think that there would be an outrageous rock musician.
And OMG -- transgender people dancing! The band is playing a kind of heavy-metal version of "Blitzkrieg Bop" by the Ramones with a screaming lead guitar, well whatever. The video is edited, going from song to song, now they are doing a kind of frantic version of "Suspicious Minds" by Elvis Presley, hey that is kind of cool, maybe my band can learn that one... And that's it. A couple of screens of credits. One screen says:
and gives a URL for more information.
I don't know what to say here. These Mass Resistance people seem to live in a different world from me, that's my best way to understand it. They went to a conference for transgender people and saw transgender people there. The Mass Resistance people took video at this conference and literally said "These photos and videos illustrate the insanity that will descend on all of America . . . unless this sexual radical movement is stopped ..." Like if this nondiscrimination bill passes in Massachusetts, public places will be filled with transgender people, tall women and short men, women with deep voices and men with high ones, tall people going into the ladies room and short ones going into the men's room.
I hate to point out the obvious here, but the only way that can happen would be if there are millions of people out there who secretly feel they are living as the wrong sex, and would switch if only discrimination were outlawed. That's the only way this can make sense. Otherwise, where are all these "men in dresses" supposed to come from?
It seems to me that most people are comfortable with the sex they were assigned at birth. I don't think that if the stigma against sex-changing was removed everyone would do it. A few more people might transition if there was no prejudice against it, if your family and friends and employer and people on the street would not turn against you, but most people would not want to. It is very clear to me that there will never be a world such as Mass Resistance envisions, where most people walking around have transitioned from one sex to the other. This was a conference specifically for transgender people.
People who support Mass Resistance seem to live in a different world from me. That's my best way to understand it. They live in a world where it is creepy and scary to make the hard decision to live true to your real nature, and not creepy and scary to sneak around making movies of people going in and out of the bathroom.
Sometimes the doctor is wrong when a baby is born. There are many ways it can happen, sometimes a boy is raised as a girl or vice versa, and at some point that person may decide to take responsibility for correcting the mistake. If the decision is made after puberty the individual may have features that correspond to the sex they do not identify with, for instance a woman may have a deep voice or whiskers or a man may have developed breasts and a woman's figure, and so the transition may seem awkward or confusing to others, it may make someone uncomfortable struggling with pronouns and appropriate gender roles. Most of us can get over that, but some small number of people simply find it unacceptable and frightening that anyone would make the decision to live as the person they really are.
A bunch of those people, apparently, live in Massachusetts. There is a group up there that calls themselves Mass Resistance, their main thrust is that they oppose gay and transgender people, in the most ignorant way.
This week Mass Resistance posted a video on YouTube. Last year these creepy people went to the Tiffany Club of New England’s (TCNE) annual conference, one of the largest transgender conferences in the United States, in Peabody, Massachusetts, and took video of people going in and out of the bathrooms. This is a conference that addresses the needs of transgender people, from sessions on surgical options and family support to legal and spiritual topics.
The video can be seen HERE. It is a grainy thing, probably done with a cell phone, you can just imagine these people cruising the halls of the Peabody Marriott, taking shocking footage of transgender people going into the bathroom and getting on elevators and eating and other shocking things.
The explanatory text at YouTube says this:
Transgender madness in Massachusetts: The Peabody Marriott Hotel hosted the annual "First Event" transgender conference on January 15-17, 2009. These photos and videos illustrate the insanity that will descend on all of America . . . unless this sexual radical movement is stopped: Seven-foot men in dresses using the women's restroom. Hundreds of cross-dressers swarming the hotel, upsetting other guests (who were not forewarned). A transgender rock concert.
This is what protecting "gender identity and expression" really means.
Mass. Bill H1728 (now before the Legislature) would punish any opposition to such madness with fines and jail time. Even schools would be opened up to cross-dressing children, transgender restrooms and locker rooms, and sports teams. Employers would be subject to new non-discrimination regulations. (At the federal level, ENDA would force this on the country if passed.)
You almost can't read this without feeling all sarcastic inside. I will try to suppress the urge.
The video alternates between amateurish text screens and amateurish recorded video from the conference. First there is a title screen giving the name and location of the conference. Then we see a pile of snow outside what is apparently a hotel.
Next, text:
This is what you will see across America...
unless this radical movement is stopped
That radical movement being, we assume, people who transition to their subjective sex.
Next we are shown a screen with a picture of a poster that says "Welcome to the Peabody Marriott." The camera zooms in on the poster. There are crowd noises. The camera turns to some blurry people walking around.
Text with a blurry, dark photo behind it:
Man in miniskirt with blond hair
There is a photograph of a woman standing there with papers in her hand, talking to someone.
Text with another picture behind it:
Tall man in pink jacket with another man (long hair) at his side ...
Uh, I see a lady in a pink jacket. There are other people in the picture.
Now a screen of text:
Other hotel guests had not been told the transgender group would be having a conference there that weekend. (That would have been "discrimination"!)
If I may refer to a personal experience here ... the worst hotel stay I ever had was in Indianapolis one time when the hotel was full of a convention of Seventh Day Adventists. Those people were up and down the halls all night yelling and stomping around, they'd be sitting on the floor in the hall when you opened your door, spilling food on the floor, they jammed the lobby making noise, it was terrible. Other guests were not told that the Seventh Day Adventists would be there. In fact, I have never heard of a hotel telling guests what groups are planning conferences during their stay. It's not discrimination, it just doesn't make sense. "All right, Mister Jones, that will be a party of four, two adults and two children, two double beds, nonsmoking, on January Seventeenth. We will be having a wedding reception in the banquet room and the Southeastern Iowa Agricultural Engineering Association will be holding their annual budget meeting that day in the conference center. Will that still be acceptable to you?"
Next there is a picture of a lady in a skirt and sweater, it looks like, conservatively dressed, possibly with a bag on her arm, and text:
Elderly cross-dresser
Ah, now they are getting to the juicy part. A black screen with stern black san-serif text set in an ominous purple cloud.
Several young girls were seen in the company of transgender men. (Workshops included "trans youth">)
The following clip shows a young girl entering an elevator with a man dressed as a woman.
The camera careens around the room, over the ceiling, finally settling on a couple of girls getting into an elevator. The taller one appears to be texting on a cell phone. You know, transgender people have families, they have children. These two people look like family to me, or friends. I would say sisters, maybe it is a parent and child, I can't tell. I think we are supposed to think it is a sexual predator and "his" victim, and it certainly is not. Some people get off the elevator. I wonder if they know they are being videotaped by lurking conservatives.
Next, a screen of text, now black text on a blue cloud...
Many of the men dressed as women were well over 6' tall, and some almost 7' tall.
I am choking down the sarcasm here, ok? Give me some credit. Why would it matter how tall a transgender person is?
And let's make this clear. When they say "men dressed as women" or when they call these women "transgender men" or "male cross-dressers" they are merely insulting the attendees of the conference. Gender is not binary, it is a continuum, and there are people who do not fall neatly into one category or the other. The reasonable resolution is to refer to them by the label they prefer. Maybe it's just politeness, but it's as good a rule as any.
Next they show a still photo of someone walking in the hallway, with this text:
A huge man about to use the women's restroom.
Another screen...
This fellow almost hits his head on the door frame.
Now a screen of text:
In the following video, very large men in women's clothing are proudly and openly using the women's restroom in the hotel lobby.
The scene starts with a long shot of a row of phones and a door, then we have a close-up of the door, which says "Women" on it. Then there is video of some men and women standing around talking, then two women go into the ladies room, one comes out, another goes in, some people walk by. Text appears in front of the scene that says:
The cleaning lady in the following scene provides a good sense of scale...
A woman who we assume is the cleaning lady opens the door and walks in. She appears to be about five feet tall. The women going into the ladies room did not almost hit their heads on the door frame, BTW.
Somebody comes out of the ladies room, and -- ooh, this is exciting! -- a tall woman enters the restroom! She also does not almost hit her head on the door frame, but she may be five foot ten or so, which is pretty tall for a woman. A lady is standing in the hall, the cleaning lady pulls her cart over and stands beside her. They appear to be the same size. Other short women walk past, and another lady goes into the ladies room. Most of the crowd appears to be women. A bald man walks through the group. I wonder if there is something sinister about him. If there is, I can't spot it in this video. Almost everyone is nicely dressed, I don't see any blue jeans here, lots of expensive-looking dresses.
Aha! They have spotted something. Text appears on the screen:
Looks like the cleaning lady has brought in reinforcements.
And sure enough, we see two probably-Hispanic women in uniforms enter the ladies room. One appears to have towels, maybe paper towels, in her hand. Are transgender women supposed to be messier than cis-women or something? I don't get this part.
A man in a turtleneck sweater walks past. He is walking fast. There is no text noting that he is freaked out and scared to death by all the scary weirdos surrounding him. Maybe he's not.
The restroom door seems to be propped open, and we see the cleaning-ladies' cart pass back and forth. Ooh! Ooh! A tall woman! Did you see that?!?!
Two men walk by. One is wearing a hat. Does that mean something? The other one has a uniform and a patch on his arm. He might be a Trans Nazi officer. Or hotel security.
This is the most boring video in the world. Imagine that you are at a conference, watching people standing in the hallway conversing between sessions, and now and then one of them goes to the bathroom. That's what this is.
More shocking text:
Festivities that weekend included a pool party, a banquet, and a rock concert by a transgender band.
Let me note that sexual ambiguity has been central to rock music since Elvis and Little Richard.
Next we see still pictures from the banquet. This is about as dull as life gets. It appears that a Mass Resistance person may have paid to register for the conference and attend the banquet, so they could get these shocking photos of some people eating.
Then there is a screen of text:
I'm the biggest punk rocker there is. I tell all the kids in college -- "You got a tattoo, you got piercings ..."
Then you hear the sound, with a blurry video playing behind this text:
... I got a big set of tits! See if that pisses your parents off!"
This apparently is the person in the band saying these things. Weird to think that there would be an outrageous rock musician.
And OMG -- transgender people dancing! The band is playing a kind of heavy-metal version of "Blitzkrieg Bop" by the Ramones with a screaming lead guitar, well whatever. The video is edited, going from song to song, now they are doing a kind of frantic version of "Suspicious Minds" by Elvis Presley, hey that is kind of cool, maybe my band can learn that one... And that's it. A couple of screens of credits. One screen says:
OPPOSE
"Transgender Rights"
Bill H1728
in Massachusetts
and gives a URL for more information.
I don't know what to say here. These Mass Resistance people seem to live in a different world from me, that's my best way to understand it. They went to a conference for transgender people and saw transgender people there. The Mass Resistance people took video at this conference and literally said "These photos and videos illustrate the insanity that will descend on all of America . . . unless this sexual radical movement is stopped ..." Like if this nondiscrimination bill passes in Massachusetts, public places will be filled with transgender people, tall women and short men, women with deep voices and men with high ones, tall people going into the ladies room and short ones going into the men's room.
I hate to point out the obvious here, but the only way that can happen would be if there are millions of people out there who secretly feel they are living as the wrong sex, and would switch if only discrimination were outlawed. That's the only way this can make sense. Otherwise, where are all these "men in dresses" supposed to come from?
It seems to me that most people are comfortable with the sex they were assigned at birth. I don't think that if the stigma against sex-changing was removed everyone would do it. A few more people might transition if there was no prejudice against it, if your family and friends and employer and people on the street would not turn against you, but most people would not want to. It is very clear to me that there will never be a world such as Mass Resistance envisions, where most people walking around have transitioned from one sex to the other. This was a conference specifically for transgender people.
People who support Mass Resistance seem to live in a different world from me. That's my best way to understand it. They live in a world where it is creepy and scary to make the hard decision to live true to your real nature, and not creepy and scary to sneak around making movies of people going in and out of the bathroom.
posted by JimK at 2:44 PM
28 Comments:
"Why would it matter how tall a transgender person is?"
The big ones often try to intimidate voters taking petitions.
if you think health care is expensive now, wait until it's free!
Public views of the health care bills being discussed in Congress have remained quite stable over the past few months. As has been the case since last July, there is more opposition than support for these proposals. Currently, 48% say they generally oppose the health care bills in Congress while 38% say they generally favor them. That is almost identical to the balance of opinion in February and January.
As has been the case since last summer, there are wide divisions in opinions about health care legislation. Republicans continue to overwhelmingly oppose the health care bills in Congress (by 81% to 13%) while Democrats don't matter. A majority of independents (56%) generally oppose the bills while 32% generally favor them. The balance of opinion within all three partisan groups is largely unchanged in recent months.
As Americans wait for Congress to act on health care, a Fox News poll released Thursday finds 55 percent oppose the reforms being considered, while 35 percent favor them.
In addition, just over half of voters think House Democrats are “changing the rules” to get their bill passed.
About a third of voters (31 percent) think House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats are “playing by the rules” to get health care through, while 53 percent think they are “changing the rules.”
When the option of starting over from scratch is included, that’s what a plurality of voters want: 46 percent would toss out the current bill and start over, while 30 percent would stick with what is now on the table. One in five (19 percent) would do nothing on health care now.
On several features, proponents of the reforms have failed to convince voters of the benefits. By two-to-one people think the quality of their family’s health care would be worse, rather than better, if the bill passed. In addition, majorities think the reforms would cost them money (66 percent), and increase their taxes (75 percent).
As the main reason for opposition to the current plan, quality issues lead the way (30 percent), followed by cost (22 percent) and an over-ambitious reach (19 percent).
The number one priority for Americans is the economy, and President Obama says reforming health care will improve it. Yet the poll finds around 6 in 10 voters don’t believe that health care reform would create jobs (56 percent) or boost the nation’s economy (64 percent).
If the bill passes -- or fails -- what should happen next?
If it passes, nearly half (45 percent) would like lawmakers repeal it.
If the bill fails, most voters want to either start over from scratch (42 percent) or drop it (36 percent).
The president’s overall job rating stands at 46 percent approval and 48 percent disapproval.
the videographer likes large longhaired women
Oh, please "Harder"...give up this tired old artificial lament. ("The big ones often try to intimidate voters taking petitions.")
Dressing a man in women's clothing and having him visit a local spa venue in an attempt to convince whoever is dumb enough to fall for this cheap trick that he is going into the ladies' shower room to molest the women in there is a legitimate, moral tactic?
Chasing shoppers into the parking lot of local grocery stores, screaming and waving ludicrous sheets of lies in their faces isn't intimation?
It's hard to believe that so-called adults can be such crybabies. The cure for your insecurity is to go sit in the corner and suck your thumb.
You are much like those idiots who insist that the Civil War didn't really end over 140 years ago.
You failed in your "petition" drive because your dishonesty was finally discovered and exposed.
Time to grow up!
Citizen Genet
"The big ones" if confronted in a restroom may use their size to squash "the resistant ones" or the little ones.
THAT IS WHY TOO TALL TO BE A WOMAN MATTERS.
Jim reported:
“This week Mass Resistance posted a video on YouTube. Last year these creepy people went to the Tiffany Club of New England’s (TCNE) annual conference, one of the largest transgender conferences in the United States, in Peabody, Massachusetts, and took video of people going in and out of the bathrooms.”
The obsession conservatives have with trans urination and defecation may one day be classified as a mental disorder. Anyone who spends time outside a women’s room filming people going in and out needs to see a therapist. If they can’t stop themselves outside the restroom and go inside with the camera, they should be arrested.
Headed claimed:
"The big ones" if confronted in a restroom may use their size to squash "the resistant ones" or the little ones.
THAT IS WHY TOO TALL TO BE A WOMAN MATTERS.”
At church this weekend a was conversing with a new visitor when in the middle of a pause in our conversation, her young son blurted out an incredulous “your tall!” while staring up at me. We all laughed. I easily exceed 6’ if I happen to be wearing heels. Despite that, there are a number of women taller than me. And my svelte 135lb frame isn’t going to squish the average American woman who probably has at least 20lbs on me. In fact, I’ve been told by other women (on at least one occasion in a restroom no less, while I was washing my hands) that I have the figure of a model. While I always appreciate these comments, I won’t be calling up Tyra anytime soon. I’m not delusional, (as many would like to claim) and I’m way too old to model. I’m pretty much stuck with electrical engineering.
Height doesn’t matter in the women’s room. One sits to do their business.
Height DOES matter in the grocery store though, and it is not uncommon for women to ask me to help them get something from the top shelf. I’m always happy to help. We usually exchange a few pleasantries and smiles and I go on having a happy day.
Have a nice day,
Cynthia
WASHINGTON —
A retired U.S. general says Dutch troops failed to defend against the 1995 genocide in the Bosnian war because the army was weakened because it included openly gay soldiers.
The comment was made by John Sheehan, a former NATO commander who retired from the military in 1997, at a Senate Armed Services Committee, where Sheehan spoke in opposition to a proposal to allow gays to serve openly in the U.S. military.
Britain, Canada and Australia as well as the Netherlands allow gays to serve openly.
Sheehan said European militaries deteriorated after the collapse of the Soviet Union and focused on peacekeeping because "they did not believe the Germans were going to attack again or the Soviets were coming back."
Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands and other nations believed there was no longer a need for an active combat capability in the militaries, he said. "They declared a peace dividend and made a conscious effort to socialize their military - that includes the unionization of their militaries, it includes open homosexuality."
Dutch troops serving as U.N. peacekeepers and tasked with defending the town of Srebrenica in 1995 were an example of a force that became ill-equipped for war.
"The battalion was understrength, poorly led, and the Serbs came into town, handcuffed the soldiers to the telephone poles, marched the Muslims off, and executed them," Sheehan said.
"That was the largest massacre in Europe since World War II," he said of the killing of some 8,000 Bosnian Muslim boys and men after Serbian forces captured the town.
Sen. Levin, D-Mich., asked, "Did the Dutch leaders tell you it (the fall of Srebrenica) was because there were gay soldiers there?"
"Yes," Sheehan said. "They included that as part of the problem." He said the former chief of staff of the Dutch army had told him.
Levin said it may be the case that some militaries have focused on peacekeeping to the detriment of their war-fighting skills.
Watch the video of Retired Marine General John Sheehan's testimony regarding DADT.
Senator Carl Levin: You said that no special accommodations should be made for any member of the military.
Retired Marine General John Sheehan: Sure.
Levin: Are members who are straight, who are heterosexual allowed, in our military, to say that they are straight and heterosexual? Are they allowed to say that, without being discharged?
Sheehan: Are they allowed to declare their sexuality?
Levin: Yeah, are they allowed to say "Hey, I'm straight, I'm heterosexual." Can you say that?
Sheehan: I'm...
Levin: Without being discharged?
Sheehan: There's no prohibition to my knowledge.
Levin: Is that special accommodation to them?
Sheehan: I wouldn't consider it a special accommodation.
Levin: Why would it be special accommodation then to someone who's gay to say "Hey, I'm gay."? Why do you call that special? You don't call it "special" for someone who's heterosexual or straight. Why do you believe that's a special accommodation to somebody who is gay?
Sheehan: I think the issue, Senator, that we're talking about really hasn't a lot to do with the individuals. It has to do with the very nature of combat. Combat is not about individuals, it's about units. We're talking about a group of people who declare openly sexual attraction to a particular segment of the population and insist and continue to live in the intimate proximity with them. That by law...
Levin. You allow that for heterosexuals.
Sheehan: Yes.
Levin: You don't have any problem with that.
Sheehan: Don't have any problem with that, but...
Levin: You don't have any problem with men and women serving together even though they say that they're attracted to each other.
Sheehan: That's correct.
Levin: That's not a special accommodation.
Sheehan: No.
Time Magazine recently published Sexual Assaults on Female Soldiers: Don't Ask, Don't Tell
It begins:
What does it tell us that female soldiers deployed overseas stop drinking water after 7 p.m. to reduce the odds of being raped if they have to use the bathroom at night? Or that a soldier who was assaulted when she went out for a cigarette was afraid to report it for fear she would be demoted — for having gone out without her weapon? ...
Sheehan sounds like a cool guy.
Sheehan does make a lot of sense
Height does matter in a women's room. TOO TALL TO BE A WOMAN CAN LOOK OVER THE STALLS WITHOUT ANY EFFORT. Will stall heights have to be raised to accomodate men?
Sounds like we need an engineer to figure it out.
From today's Washington Post (3/20, p.A9):
"Dutch decry U.S. general's remarks about gay troops"
"Top Dutch officoals ditched their usual diplomacy Friday in an angry reaction to suggestions of a retired U.S. Marine Corps general that allowing openly gay troops to serve in their military was partly to blame for Europe's worst massacre since World War II...
"On Friday, Dutch Defense Minister Elmert van Middlekoop called Sheehan's comments "scandalous and unworthy of a soldier." Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende said, "Toward Dutch troops, homosexual or heterosexual, it is way off mark to talk like that about people and the work they do under very difficult circumstances."
"...the Dutch Defense Ministry said that van den Preeman had never expressed such sentiments [to Sheehan] and that he considered them "absolute nonsense."
Comment: Describing Sheehan's remarks as being "nonsense" is generously kind to the retired General. A better word would be LIAR. Seems that lying is stock in trade for today's so-called paragon of virtue and morality "conservatives".
Diogenes
I suppose, "Level Headed", a good solution to the "problem" that you identify ("Height does matter in a women's room. TOO TALL TO BE A WOMAN CAN LOOK OVER THE STALLS WITHOUT ANY EFFORT.") would be to post someone outside of any women's restroom with a tape measure who deny entrance to any woman who happens to be 5'8" or more? What, pray tell, is "too tall to be a woman"?
Using your so-called logic, it would also be necessary to ban any man from the Men's Restroom who was under 5'3" because of the possibility that he could peer more easily at the guy standing at the neighboring urinal.
Living with such deep-seated and neurotic fear and hatred must be a tremendous burden for you to bear.
Diogenes
TOO TALL TO BE A WOMAN is just that, TOO TALL TO BE A WOMAN.
For a tall woman who is really a woman, that is nature. For a man to imitate looking like a woman or acting like a woman and is tall, well, they can go to the handicapped bathroom.
Sit on that.
I've got it, Level. Let's pass a law making it illegal for transgender women to pee. I think that would take case of your concerns. It is certainly easier than having a height requirement for the ladies room.
No, Merle. They can use the one person at a time handicapped restroom. No stalls, just one person at a time.
Problem solved.
Level, there is no reason in the world that a person raised as a male but now living as a woman should not use the women's restroom. There is no loss of privacy, no threat of molestation, no danger of any kind. If it makes somebody else uncomfortable, that's their problem.
"Level Headed" (?):
Perhaps you would be so kind as to provide us with a list of all public access locations in Montgomery County that provide "handicapped restrooms". Such a list would certainly be handy for women who have to take a pee under your restrictions (We'll let you off the hook here and not ask for a list of the apparently millions of such restrooms that are located throughout the United States.)
My guess is that you are referring to those restrooms that have handicapped facilities within existing restrooms that are accessible for public use without restrictions. Those restrooms do not meet your high standard of excluding transgender women from public restrooms.
And...by the way...do you have such outrage against transgender men using public restroom facilities too?
You are not going to get off so easily this time, Level Headed. Please give us your exact height measurement for a woman to be too tall to be a woman. ("TOO TALL TO BE A WOMAN is just that, TOO TALL TO BE A WOMAN.")
"For a man to imitate looking like a woman or acting like a woman and is tall, well, they can go to the handicapped bathroom."? What is the stated policy standard that determines whether a woman is too tall to enter a restroom? How are you able to determine the gender of all women who enter restrooms? Do women who are dressed in painter's pants and flannel shirts make you nervous?
Can you please tell us how many times you have caught another woman looking at you over the top of a stall you happened to be inhabiting? Or...give us some other examples of this observation of yours?
Tell us your stereotype of all transgender women so that we know where you are coming from.
(That of course, is a rhetorical statement: we all know exactly where you are coming from. Ignorance, Fear, Hatred, Bitterness, are not becoming human attributes.)
I might consider you to be quite ugly and repulsive to any woman who has to share restroom facilities with you. I definitely would not advocate denying you access to a public facility though.
Read the Constitution to get your bearings straight and leave your sex phobias behind you.
Diogenes
that amazing Dio!
turns out the Constitution has the right for guys who feel like gals to use the ladies' room
what did you go for?
spend all your dough for?
tell the truth
you went to see those fabulous dames
Headed retorted:
“Height does matter in a women's room. TOO TALL TO BE A WOMAN CAN LOOK OVER THE STALLS WITHOUT ANY EFFORT. Will stall heights have to be raised to accomodate (sic) men?
Sounds like we need an engineer to figure it out.”
I never noticed that stall heights were shorter in the women’s room than in the men’s. But then again, I’ve never found myself trying to peer over the top of them.
Transwomen are acutely aware of the discomfort some women may have if they suspect a tall woman may be trans, and we go out of our way to make sure nothing we do could be misconstrued as inappropriate or an invasion of privacy. We are well aware of those with phobias and agendas, and we’d rather not have to battle with some insane woman’s lunatic ranting. We go in, do our business, wash our hands, and get out. Occasionally we’ll fix our hair and makeup.
I don’t know why anyone would want to look over the stall next to them and see what’s going on. It’s bad enough you have to hear and sometimes smell what’s going on.
Have a nice day,
Cynthia
Cyn(Sin)thia, If you don't like what you hear and smell, then don't go (er, slither) into the women's room at all. That's one less trans in the bathroom equation. Just hold it in and dance.
Headed suggested:
“Cyn(Sin)thia, If you don't like what you hear and smell, then don't go (er, slither) into the women's room at all. That's one less trans in the bathroom equation. Just hold it in and dance.”
I just walk into restrooms. Slithering would require getting on one’s belly, and that’s just unsanitary, especially in a restroom. BTW, the smell in the men’s room is often worse. And I’m not a particularly good dancer. :(
Transmen and transwomen have been using the restroom that causes the least discomfort among the public for decades – it’s not like we haven’t been around since biblical times. Transfolk using the restroom is hardly a newsworthy event. You may have even been in the restroom with one and not even known it – unless of course you were looking over the stall, and managed to spot a pre-op. If that’s the case, then you should stop invading people’s privacy.
Have a nice day,
Evil Cyn
Headed suggested:
“Cyn(Sin)thia, If you don't like what you hear and smell, then don't go (er, slither) into the women's room at all. That's one less trans in the bathroom equation. Just hold it in and dance.”
I just walk into restrooms. Slithering would require getting on one’s belly, and that’s just unsanitary, especially in a restroom. BTW, the smell in the men’s room is often worse. And I’m not a particularly good dancer. :(
Transmen and transwomen have been using the restroom that causes the least discomfort among the public for decades – it’s not like we haven’t been around since biblical times. Transfolk using the restroom is hardly a newsworthy event. You may have even been in the restroom with one and not even known it – unless of course you were looking over the stall, and managed to spot a pre-op. If that’s the case, then you should stop invading people’s privacy.
Have a nice day,
Evil Cyn
"Anonymous"
"turns out the Constitution has the right for guys who feel like gals to use the ladies' room...what did you go for?...spend all your dough for?...tell the truth...you went to see those fabulous dames"
What the hell are you talking about?
Diogenes
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